What would you do?

Parent Cafe
1

<p>Hi –</p>

<p>I set up a new username since I’m somewhat embarrassed about this question.</p>

<p>My husband and I planned a 5 day cruise with our college son starting in two weeks. Now his 91 year old father is in the hospital with pneumonia and will probably not go home again but nothing more specific is known at this time. Unless my FIL improves dramatically (unlikely) DH obviously does not feel he could enjoy the cruise but said I could go with our son. I do not yet know how our son would feel about going with just me; we are not telling him anything yet since he is about to start finals and do not want to upset him until we have to. I would not go alone if our son doesn’t want to go without all three of us.</p>

<p>Our cancellation insurance would cover all three of us in the current situation so that is not an issue.</p>

<p>My father-in-law is a wonderful man; but he’s had many health issues and five years ago no one expected him to reach this age. He’s been in and out of the hospital several times in the last few years and had full-time care at home since my (also) 91 year old MIL could not do it herself. His quality of life was basically subsistence and it’s been a sad situation for several years.</p>

<p>DH does not turn to me for emotional support but rather into himself; he also is very supportive of his mother and has flown there for every crisis (they live 900 miles away). My son and I haven’t been there in a couple of years; in fact, we were going to visit them for two days after the cruise.</p>

<p>This cruise has been a major psychological boost for me; it’s been a very (not clinically) depressing winter and I’ve invested a lot of my mental health into the thought of the trip. Our son hasn’t had a decent vacation in a long time; he’s worked each summer and will be interning again this summer.</p>

<p>Would I be cold-hearted and selfish to go on the cruise if the situation does not change? What if it means going soon after a funeral? (I would of course cancel the cruise rather than miss the funeral if that is how it works out. We could even fly from the one port if necessary; there are plenty of flights). I would also cancel immediately if my husband asks; no question. Although I would be sad, I really went through the grieving process when my FIL’s health started failing and honestly would see the end as a blessing by now. But I really don’t know if I’m rationalizing or not and am trying to work it out in my mind now rather than wait for an emotional crisis. Any input would be welcomed.</p>

<p>People on this forum have so much experience so I turn to you. Have you been in a situation like this? What would you do?</p>

2

<p>You imply that the hospital folks have indicated that FIL will not likely rebound from this current setback. If it were me, and I could postpone the cruise to a later date when all three could enjoy it, that is what I would do. While you have done your grieving for FIL, your husband may not be at the same place. Plus when a parent dies, regardless of how expected it is, or how ill the person has been, it is still a shocking time for most people. I would think your husband would appreciate you being there just in case something happens. And while he’s being sweet and telling you to go…he may actually welcome this type of vacation at a later time.</p>

<p>You are fortunate to have trip insurance which will enable you to go at a different time.</p>

3

<p>What thumper said.</p>

<p>Your son looks to you and his dad for his examples of how one treats family and deals with crisis. What example do you want to set for him?</p>

4

<p>Stall. See how things look in a week. If you can really tell that husband does not need you and it is clear that FIL has stabilized so he does not need you, it is just five days, and you could get home quickly if either of them needed you. FIL may be sick on and off for the next several years. It may be hard to find 5 days to spend with your son; I wouldn’t cancel yet. (It is good that you have the insurance.) I wouldn’t go right after the funeral without husband, though. Hopefully it will not come to that.</p>

5

<p>I can’t imagine going off on a cruise at a time like this. Your H does need you and your son even if he’s not aware that he does. It is very hard having a parent who is seriously ill even if the parent is old. From what you’ve posted, your H has not had a parent die yet, so also isn’t aware of all the emotional support that you could give him during this time. </p>

<p>Seems that despite your and your S’s feeling the need for a vacation, this is a time to draw the family together and to support each other including offering support for your MIL.</p>

<p>My advice is to postpone the cruise, and find another way to give yourself support while also being able to support your H and his family.</p>

6

<p>I also agree with thumper. A cruise can be done anytime and even if it’s difficult to get on a later one, if necessary, you can always go to a tropical island or some other beach instead and still have a break and a good time.</p>

<p>I suggest lining up the answers to practical questions - </p>

<ul>
<li>Determine the latest date you can cancel the cruise. Things with the FIL could change at any time.</li>
<li>Determine what other cruises might be available at a later date this summer that all of you could do and figure out if you can afford it and if they have room.</li>
<li>If it turns out that you can’t do a cruise later for practical reasons (higher cost, booked-up), find appealing alternatives like an island or beach vacation (assuming you don’t already live at a nice beach).</li>
</ul>

<p>Whether you go w/o your H is a personal choice but consider whether you and your S would really enjoy the cruise or not knowing that your H was standing vigil.</p>

7

<p>I also suggest checking into whether hospice services would be appropriate for your FIL. My best friend recently died while under the care of hospice, and it was a beautiful experience in which her family was very actively involved. By her own choice, she died in her home.</p>

<p>I also had an acquaintance who died at hospice with his family around him. Again, a very beautiful, loving experience.</p>

<p>In hospice, patients receive palliative care – care to keep them as comfortable as they wish while also being lucid (if they value that over being pain free). Patients don’t have to go through painful procedures that only prolong their inevitable deaths.</p>

<p>I flew out of town to spend a day with my best friend as she was dying in March of lung cancer, and that was time that I always will treasure. Even though she was unable to still talk, I was able to talk to her, and she communicated with her eyes and gestures. I am so glad that I went out of my way to be with her and her husband during one of her final days. By my own choice, I also helped the hospice nurse care for my friend, and I was appreciative of the opportunity to show my friend how much I loved her.</p>

<p>One of my friends recently told me about the recent death of her MIL. Her MIL was in her 90s and a former nurse who had a heart attack. The MIL made the choice to return to her home to die and not to have any extraordinary measures. Her son, DIL, grandchildren all came to be with her. My friend talked about how her MIL asked to be wheeled around the house, and took a lot of pleasure in seeing it and her garden for the last time. A couple of days later, she died in bed with her family surrounding her. </p>

<p>Death isn’t something to run away from. It’s something that will happen to all of us, and by accepting the inevitable and being there as a loved one is dying, we give ourselves, the dying person and their family a gift of unconditional love. We also can lose our own fear of death.</p>

<p>Our reaction to our loved one’s deaths and dying also will teach our children how to react to our own inevitable deaths.</p>

8

<p>I was in a somewhat similar situation when my MIL died. Our 2 children had friends visiting from our previous hometown when we received word that MIL’s husband had driven her back to the midwest from Canada and she was in the hospital. We knew this was likely the end as she had kidney disease. The visitors were on day 1 or 2 of a week long visit. </p>

<p>I asked H if he wanted me to take the visitors home. He did not. Actually he didn’t even want our children (9 and 12 at the time) to make a last visit to the hospital. He wanted them to remember his mother as she was. I disagreed somewhat with him, but even more I thought it was his mother and his wishes should be respected. He did explain to the children why he didn’t think it was a good idea to see their grandmother. (They had seen her just a few weeks before.) Having the friends around did help our children not dwell on what was happening. My point is that you should ask your husband what he wants you to do. I understand that your son might be disappointed, but if your husband decides the trip should be delayed or cancelled I think your son will learn a lesson about values. </p>

<p>BTW–Seeing an end as a blessing is not cruel. My own very vibrant grandmother suffered a stroke that would have caused major damage if she had survived. Even at 22 I saw it as a blessing for her. Her quality of life would have been awful. </p>

<p>My thoughts are with you.</p>

9

<p>Here’s what the hospice experience was like for the man who was my acquaintance. He had suffered a heart attack at night in his home, and by the time the EMS had arrived, he had technically died. EMS restarted his heartbeat, but it was obvious that he had irreparable brain damage.</p>

<p>His wife – who was from a country in which people care for their dying loved ones at home – had wanted to care for him at home, but he was a large man, and it would have been difficult for her and her daughters (ages 15, 22) to have done the care at home that he would have required. So, they put him in hospice.</p>

<p>The 22-year-old D was in grad school, 3,000 miles away, let her professors know what was happening, and came home to help. (For those wondering about her studies, she continued to keep up with them while she was also helping with her father.)</p>

<p>During the 10 days that it took him to die, at all times, some member of his immediate family was at his bedside. Typically at least one of his hands was being held by a loved one. </p>

<p>The family played a cassette of music that he had loved. He had been a very gregarious man, and many of his friends came to say good-bye. Despite his being in a coma, people talked directly to him, expressing love for him and for his family. Our church came and did a church service there. Friends brought food and gave other support.</p>

<p>I was there for the church service, and it was a very beautiful experience filled with love.</p>

<p>All of us will die. All of our loved ones will die. IMO when a loved one is dying, the best thing that we can do is accept what is going on and be there for the person and family. Our presence and whatever support we can give is our last gift to our dying loved one. Our presence and support can mean so much to our friends and relatives who are going through the death of one of their loved ones.</p>

<p>Here’s a link with info about how to support someone whose loved one is dying:
[On</a> Our Own Terms: Moyers on Dying - Article](<a href=“http://www.pbs.org/wnet/onourownterms/articles/support.html]On”>http://www.pbs.org/wnet/onourownterms/articles/support.html)</p>

10

<p>I would stall as long as possible. And then, if FIL is still failing and not expected to recover, cancel and reschedule. Since you have the cancellation insurance, take advantage of it. That’s what it’s there for. </p>

<p>I completely understand how much you have been looking forward to the trip. See how postpone-able it is. Maybe your travel agent could do some quiet checking for you. </p>

<p>This is a very hard time. But I think you will feel, as this progresses, that you need to be there for your H. I know I did when I was in that situation a year ago.</p>

11

<p>The end is a blessing when a person has suffered from an illness that is incurable. The end was a blessing for my dear friend who died of incureable lung cancer at only age 58. When I learned that she had died, I was relieved, because I had seen her in pain.</p>

<p>However, I still feel so fortunate to have been able to be at her side days before she was dying, and to have been able to offer my help in caring for her and in talking to her. I can not tell how much I treasured that time with her.</p>

12

<p><em>I</em> don’t think you would be selfish and coldhearted to go on the cruise, especially if you could come back quickly. However, my opinion isn’t the one that counts. Can you ask your MIL about her son/your H? You say he goes internal, but maybe having <em>you</em> around is support enough without you thinking that you are “actively” participating? Also can you imagine in 2 years what you feel both taking the cruise and not taking the cruise; with the various scenarios that might play … funeral, no funeral, improvement…</p>

<p>My opinion agrees with other posters, stall for the decision and TALK over your options with H. </p>

<p>And I am sorry this treat that you have been looking forward to is in doubt. Sometimes the “dream” is better than the reality when it must be taken under a cloud. I hope if you have to change you reschedule to something even better.</p>

13

<p>Will you be able to enjoy the cruise? Will you be feeling worried or guilty? And will you enjoy it without your hubby?</p>

<p>A few years ago I was desperately looking forward to getting away from a cold snowy winter for a trip to Florida. A blizzard came through the city where we were supposed to change planes, and our flight was cancelled, and we couldn’t get one re-scheduled until too late in the week. I was so disappointed, I cried off and on for a day. But we made reservations at a ski place, and I found that a change of scene and looking at someone ELSE’s snow was almost as uplifting as the warm sun would have been. We took the trip to FL the following year.</p>

<p>I guess my point is that you may feel disappointed now, but waiting and taking the vacation later may turn out to be ok.</p>

14

<p>Quandry, please feel free to PM me or e-mail me. There are a few hospice workers on CC who I’m sure would be more than willing to offer their input.</p>

<p>Honestly, struggling with already made plans when a loved one is in the final stages of life is very common - no need to feel ashamed about asking the questions. I see it all the time… people have vacation plans that were made months before, plans to attend weddings, graduations, etc. and they get mixed messages about what is appropriate. </p>

<p>What IS appropriate is what’s best for you and your family. That being said, I would ask for some clarification from your FIL’s medical team. When you say he will not go home again, I think of a couple of scenarios: he will die in the hospital within the next few days; or he cannot go home where his wife is, so he will go to a nursing home for some possible attempts at rehab, but could die there.</p>

<p>If he is in the hospital and they think they can aggressively treat his pneumonia, he will probably be there for a few more days. If they decide not to aggressively treat his pneumonia (for instance, they decline a ventilator if it comes to that point), they will most likely be forced to discharge him, either to a nursing home, or back home, but only with a 24-hour capable, caregiver. Neither home health nor hospice will provide services if they assess the situation and feel your MIL is incapable of taking care of him, and refuses to have anyone in to help her. </p>

<p>I agree with most posters, delay the decision as long as feasibly possible. While you say he may not go home, it also doesn’t necessarily mean he will die within the next week or two. He could last for several weeks, depending on how his other organs are functioning. There are just too many variables in play here to make a decision today based on something that could change drastically tomorrow or the next day.</p>

<p>The best way I can say this is, you will know when the time is right to make a decision. And if you make a decision and things change drastically, you will make adjustments somehow.</p>

15

<p>You asked, “What would you do?”</p>

<p>If I were you, I would cancel the cruise. </p>

<p>On a scale of 1 to 10 in terms of life-changing situations, going on a cruise is a 1 and dying is a 10. Losing a grandparent, parent, and husband is a 9. In my opinion, you would be correctly perceived as “cold-hearted and selfish” if you went ahead with your scheduled cruise at a time when your father-in-law is very likely to die (few chronically ill 91-year-olds survive pneumonia), and your son, husband, and mother-in-law are on the verge of losing a loved one. </p>

<p>Cruises can be postponed; dying and grieving cannot. This is a time when society expects you to play your “role” as a “self-sacrificing” mother, wife, and daughter-in-law; society expects you to “be there” in every possible way (including physically) for your family. So, cancel the cruise (without waiting for your husband to ask), and do so without voicing one iota of complaint. Use the time and money you would have spent on the cruise to travel to your in-laws’ location so that your son and your husband can be with their grandparents/parents at this time. It is the “mature,” “loving,” “supportive,” and “right” thing for you to do. It is also the strategically smart thing for you to do, because it will not only shield you from possible future retribution (estrangement, divorce, disinheritance) from your son, husband, and mother-in-law, but it will also secure you interpersonal leverage with them in the form of an “I scratched your back, now you scratch mine” future bargaining chip. In other words, by sacrificing your longed-for cruise, you can still put yourself first by appearing to have willingly put yourself last. </p>

<p>My advice to you will be considered odious (and rightly so) by most who read it, but I look at it this way: If you need public advice from strangers about a personal “quandary” which most people would not consider a “quandary” (most people would cancel the cruise without thinking twice), then you need advice from someone like me, because you are someone like me.</p>

16

<p>I hope your father in law bounces back. He very well may. We were in a position this winter when someone became very ill while we were away. We could have rushed home only to shorten our vacation while this person would not have benefitted from our doing this. Different from your specific situation in that there was no prior knowledge. </p>

<p>You sound like you need a break. Try to go if at all possible. Like other posters here said, delay the possible cancellation.</p>

<p>I must have gotten hardened to death and illness, especially in my parents’ generation. I truy believe life goes on and that life is for the living. Would your father in law want you to give up a trip because he is ill? Probably not. He would probaby understand that you want to go and enjoy your chid and family.</p>

<p>I had my law school final exams (not the bar exa) when my Mom was diagnosed with a brain tumor. She is a widow. I also had a two year old and I stayed with her during the week. I remember rescheduling one exam to another day, but kept my schedule pretty regular. As regular as possible anyway. Studied while she had surgery. I am running on here. I just want to say that I don’t think there would be a benefit to your father in law if you sacrificed a vacation that you were looking forward to.</p>

<p>My thoughts and prayers are with you all. Let us know what you decide.</p>

17

<p>

I agree.
I doubt you’ll be able to enjoy it that much under these circumstances anyway…</p>

18

<p>"f he is in the hospital and they think they can aggressively treat his pneumonia, he will probably be there for a few more days. If they decide not to aggressively treat his pneumonia (for instance, they decline a ventilator if it comes to that point), they will most likely be forced to discharge him, either to a nursing home, or back home, but only with a 24-hour capable, caregiver. Neither home health nor hospice will provide services if they assess the situation and feel your MIL is incapable of taking care of him, and refuses to have anyone in to help her. "</p>

<p>Depending on his condition, whether he has a living will, and the wishes of his next of kind, the hospital may or may not decide to aggressively treat his pneumonia. It also may be a decision that the OP’s husband will be consulted on, and he may appreciate his wife’s being near as he helps with that difficult decision.</p>

<p>I realize that I have had 2 experiences that were similar. About 13 years ago, I was in Ecuador studying Spanish when I got a call from my 82-year-old mother’s doctor saying that my mother appeared to need emergency surgery for a heart ailment. The surgery was expected to have about a 50:50 chance of survival. I immediately made arrangements to leave Ecuador in the morning, and spent the next 2 weeks with my mom, who ended up not needing surgery, but was in the hospital for a while. Then, I helped make arrangements for her to move to my city. It never crossed my mind to stay Ecuador or to not go to be with my mother even though she and I didn’t get along that well.</p>

<p>I was out of the country with H and S in a beautiful place for a work-related trip when I got an e-mail from the husband of the now deceased friend whom I mentioned in an earlier post. He said that my friend’s doctor said she was expected to die within days. I was heartbroken because I was scheduled to fly to see her the day after I returned from my trip (a trip that was planned after I’d made flight arrangements to see my friend, who when I had made the arrangements was ill, but not expected to die shortly). I could not afford to fly back early.</p>

<p>The rest of my trip, I went through the motions and did not enjoy the beauty around me. I just wanted to leave and be with my friend, who fortunately, was still alive and lucid when I went to see her.</p>

<p>I can not imagine considering enjoying a cruise at a time that a friend or relative or a close relative of my husband was hospitalized and seriously ill.</p>

19

<p>" I must have gotten hardened to death and illness, especially in my parents’ generation. I truy believe life goes on and that life is for the living. Would your father in law want you to give up a trip because he is ill? Probably not. He would probaby understand that you want to go and enjoy your chid and family."</p>

<p>I’ve seen similar statements on CC, and I don’t understand them.</p>

<p>Yes, if I were critically ill, I would expect my close family members to not go on a cruise so they could be with me. I’d do the same for my close family members. A person who’s critically ill deserves consideration over people who feel the need for a relaxing vacation.</p>

<p>I remember that when my father had had a series of strokes that left him partially paralyzed, his friends avoided him, telling my mother that they were sure that my dad didn’t wish them to “see him like that.” I knew that my dad was lonely and would have been happy to see his friends. His friends’ reasoning about not seeing him reflected their own selfish needs.</p>

<p>When I went to my best friend’s bedside as she was dying, she looked like a concentration camp victim. She was bald and skeletal. Still, when I looked into her eyes, I saw the beautiful person she always had been. I also saw that she appreciated my making time to be with her.</p>

<p>Until very recently, people died at home with their loved ones around them and, yes, the ill and the dying took precedence over the living, and to me, that way of doing things still makes lots of sense.</p>

20

<p>northstarmom - I agree, and disagree with you. I think the choices you make/would make are right for you. But that doesn’t make them right for everyone. You mention that you don’t understand similar statements you’ve seen on CC. Every family handles death and dying so differently - we can’t create a cookie cutter approach to how people should or shouldn’t make choices in life.</p>

<p>When my grandmother was almost 102, she died of ovarian cancer in a nursing home. Other than the cancer, she was relatively healthy. My dad, her only child, was not at the funeral home when she died, and when they called him to tell her she had died, he chose not to go see her before the funeral home came. I was appalled. This was in 2000. Eight years later, and after working for hospice for almost five years, I’ve learned how inerrant my judgement was. I have learned to NEVER make judgements about people’s choices to be with or not be with someone who is dying/has died. The OP stated her husband does not turn to her for emotional support - that is his personality. If he’s more of an introvert, he may not necessarily find her presence beneficial, and may feel guilty if she cancels. There’s just way too many variable here to tell someone what to do. We can offer our experiences and consequences of our experiences, but we can’t assume we know enough to tell someone what to do.</p>

<p>I’ve been with families who have had conflicts when a loved on is declining. As hospice staff, we encourage the loved ones to do what the loved one would want them to do (if the FIL wants the DIL to take the vacation), but ultimately the loved one has to discern what is best for everyone. I’ve seen people dying who have strongly encouraged their loved ones to follow through with previously made plans. We don’t know (only because the OP has not shared this) what the FIL’s wishes are, if he is even able to articulate them at this point. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>If the DNR is already signed (as I suspect it is if he’s had several hospitalizations in recent years) then making that decision will not be an issue. However, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen families gather for what they thought was a person’s final days, only to turn into weeks and months. People rally like the energizer bunny. If it were end-stage cancer, ALS, Parkinson’s, etc., I wouldn’t be so quick to point out the possibility of a rally, but pneumonia can be treated and cured, even if it means a long, long road to some sort of recovery. It’s also one of those illnesses that insurance companies won’t cover lengthy hospitalizations for unless the treatment is aggressive and there is some hope for recovery. Once a patient is stabilized, the insurance companies will often decline paying for any skilled nursing care that can take place in a nursing home or rehabilitation center. </p>

<p>Northstarmom - while I understand your passion about your own wishes if you were dying, it really is a different context when it’s someone who is 91 years old. Many times, especially if they’ve been struggling with chronic illness for a long time, they have emotionally and psychologically shut down and are ready to die. They have accepted their fate and genuinely wish for their family members not to miss out on something that they’ve been long waiting for. People do make that choice, and it’s up to the loved ones to figure out what is the best way to honor that person - is it through following through with their wishes (if they’re genuine), or deciding you know what’s best for them despite their saying otherwise?</p>