What you wish you knew before signing your divorce agreement

Parent Cafe
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<p>My advice is to put yourself in his shoes and think about what is fair to BOTH him and you.</p>

<p>I don’t like to talk about this, but my H and I almost got divorced couple of years ago. At the time my H wanted nothing to do with me. He was done with the marriage.</p>

<p>When we decided to get divorced, he asked me what I wanted to do. I did not want to spend money on lawyers, so I decided to be fair to him. I knew what he wanted - joint custody. So right away I offered him joint custody. When I did this, he was ready to give me everything we had - he offered to give me all proceeds from the sale of the house, all our rental properties and even his business. All of this, so that I could comfortably take care if his children, when they were with me. I, of course, wanted to split everything evenly (and for him to keep his business) - so that it would be fair to both of us.</p>

<p>We eventually reconciled, but the lesson we both learned, that no matter how angry we can be with each other, when the divorce is concerned it is better for everyone to put their anger aside.</p>

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<p>Friend got the house because it was close enough to being paid off and monthly costs were low, incl taxes. (And, reasonable replacement housing was high cost.) She also set a number of years he would share any large house maintenance tasks (major repairs, the sort that were not optional.) But, she insisted he pay off the credit cards, since most of that was his debt. </p>

<p>She thought “peace” was worth compromise. In the mid-term, that was her loss (but her strategic mistake- each case can be different.) His income was high at a point when she was down to pt work.</p>

<p>He initially specified child support ended at 18, as did spousal. He had agreed to save something like 1k/year per kid, toward college (a whopping 5k each.) She is very, very, very lucky he agreed, later, to split college costs, continue spousal, her health, and child support to 21. His second wife fought for cc. The college and finaid issues fell to my friend to explore and make work. Fortunately, the spirits were with her. </p>

<p>Even splitting the college costs that remained was hard on my friend because her work was for a govt contractor- ie, what occasionally seemed super could be followed by drought- you want to consider not just that work may be needed, but that it may not be as good as you wish or as consistent. (Right now, eg, the sequester affects her.)</p>

<p>Think of everything you can and then some. Dad wouldn’t buy the kids clothes, wanted to give one his old car- and not support insurance costs. Dad and new wife encouraged one to an off-campus apt, then expected Mom to split that higher cost. Best luck.</p>

<p>I want to add, the thing that truly helped, in the end, was that she fostered a good relationship between the sons and Dad. It was this (his affection and pride in the boys and their accomplishments) that opened his mind to something other than cc, despite the new wife.</p>

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<p>lerkin, you give great advice. My friend, who is now having trouble 8 years out, approached his divorce the same way (as did his ex). He is very wealthy and she wasn’t really working at the time, but they decided as parents to make it possible/easy/comfortable for the kids to split between both houses. So the husband bought an apartment for the ex on the same block and paid more than he was required to pay so that they could all have a comparable lifestyle. At the time of divorce, they put college money into trust for each kid and agreed on alimony/child support untl after college. There wasn’t a single bit of bickering or nonsense in the first 8 years and I think it’s because they both committed to putting their children first, regardless of were there were living on a particular day.</p>

<p>However, now all bets are off. I hope they can work something out.</p>

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<p>It’s also important to be cautious about how you speak of a friend’s ex- because the ex is still your friend’s children’s parent. My friend married for love; I thought that, despite the downfall, it was important to respect that.</p>

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<p>This has tripped up more than a few parents on this forum. Sometimes a 50/50 split sounds good, but if when the time comes you can barely afford 50% of the in-state public, and your ex can afford 50% of the highest priced private U, things can get sticky. Maintaining a strong relationship with your kids, and doing everything you can to make sure they maintain a strong relationship with their other parent may be the best way to prevent a meltdown.</p>

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<p>At least in my stae, when I was divorced, anything having to do with the kids could be changed at any time, maybe until they were 18? So consider that possibility during negotiations. Think about college costs, who pays for orthodontia, when you should re-look at child support. Consider retirement and any business equity.</p>

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<p>As HiMom mentioned, if he has a pension be sure she is granted a portion of that (probably proportional to the number of years they were married while he was working for the organization providing the pension). My ex also has to pick the survivor’s benefit per our divorce decree (lower payout while he is alive, but my portion continues after his death – he is 11 years older than I am, so statistically this should pay off for me).</p>

<p>Also, if her state has this, have her get child support automatically deducted from his paycheck if possible. There is a small fee for this, but it is totally worth it to be sure she gets paid on time and in full for child support. Not sure if this same thing can be done for alimony (we didn’t have any spousal support in our divorce).</p>

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<p>On the life insurance policy it should be set up at the beginning, either with the wife (usually) as both beneficiary and owner and the former husband as payor OR if he wants to own it, there can still be a third party notification for all correspondence.</p>

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<p>While you are married, be sure that things (like cars) are either divided between you or held in both names. I know someone currently divorcing and her ex’s name was on the title to both cars. The ex’s car was jointly owned, but my friend’s car was in the ex’s name only. Just imagine what it’s like to have your ex demanding that you turn over your only means of transport with such minutae as “complete with all maintenance records, empty of all personal belongings and professionally detailed.” It seemed that this happened about every other week – despite a court order to the contrary. Own your own stuff!</p>

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<p>^ along the same line, confirm whether credit cards are co-held by both or it’s technically his account (ie, based on his income and rating) - and the woman simply has a courtesy card in her name.</p>

<p>You can also look into her rights to a portion of his Social Security benefits, when the time comes (based on her age.)</p>

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<p>Agree that she may be eligible for Social Security benefits through him, but that is not something that goes in the divorce decree. It is federal law, and is not influenced by anything in the decree. A whole nuther thread. :)</p>

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<p>Your friend must come to terms with the fact that she can not rely on any income/assistance from the ex. She needs to get a job and support herself fully. If the ex honors the settlement terms, then she should put that money away toward the kid’s college, unforeseen expenses (medical, etc.) Ex’s money should be gravy, not the meat and potatoes.</p>

<p>My ex was a good dad, but only so-so as a provider for his family. Once we divorced, he grew less interested in the kids and refused to pay child support/expenses more times than I can count. So much wasted money spent on lawyers trying to force him to be a good dad, again. To no avail. Got so bad that the judge even had ex thrown in jail until he paid his back child support (which miraculously appeared on the judge’s bench one hour after ex’s incarceration.) Why didn’t he just pay his child support? I don’t know. But, I’ve learned the hard way that you can not, under any circumstances, rely on ex’s money to help pay for the kids’ expenses. Tell her to look after herself and her children as if ex didn’t exist.</p>

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<p>See if your state has automatic wage garnishments for child support. I don’t live in Calif anymore, but a Calif friend told me that she gets her child support on time because the state requires that CS be garnished, from the get go. </p>

<p>If that’s true, then all states should do that.</p>

<p>Include:</p>

<p>how children’s extras will get paid for…braces, sports, cars, proms, etc</p>

<p>The earlier mention of vet bills is interesting. I think pets are awarded to a spouse as property. I don’t think they’re shared, so I think the owner become responsible. However, if the couple agree to share dog ownership, then vet bills would be something to consider.</p>

<p>If the ex will be carrying the health insurance on you and children, will you have a say in policy? Can he change to a cheaper policy that will cost you more money? who pays for deductibles and copayments.</p>

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<p>State collection of child support does not include medical costs, dental costs, extracurricular costs, etc. The state has no way to know what those figures are because those bills are paid at time service is rendered. The state can only collect those costs if the ex doesn’t reimburse the custodial parent and a court order is in place to collect those amounts. The state can collect for health insurance, though. The problem is when the insurance rate increases. You have to go back to court to get that part of the child support modified. Same thing if the ex gets an increase in pay or you lose or change your job. You have to go back to court to get the child support modified to the correct percentage for each parent. It’s a real pain in the ***. So much time spent in court and paying lawyers with money that would be better spent on the children; but, you have to do it to try to make the ex uphold his/her responsibility toward the children. <<sigh>></sigh></p>

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<p>In my state, MN, the medical insurance costs can be collected through wage garnishment. I know that because I do payroll for my H’s business and process wage garnishment for deadbeat dads (who surprisingly or unsurprisingly never stick around) and I saw the garnishment orders that included health insurance. I guess, the mother pays health insurance premium and dad reimburses her.</p>

<p>In my state it is not required to have wage garnished to pay child support. One of my employees pays it out of his bank account and he is a very good employee.</p>

<p>P.S. Also, social services always want to know what health insurance we provide, so I think they have a way to compel non-custodian parent to buy health insurance for their children through employer.</p>

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<p>It really depends. I wanted and got the house. I would not be able to buy the smallest house in this neighborhood for what we paid in the late 1990s. </p>

<p>I then refinanced the remaining principal for 15 years at 3% to cut my monthly payment in half. Now my ex is out of work and about to lose his house. He’s behind on child support. If I had counted on spousal support based on his former income, I would be up s–t creek.</p>

<p>As for college expenses, if your state does not have a statute (mine doesn’t), you can ask and you can negotiate and you can hope your ex will be good for it, but the court will not compel an unwilling party to pay it if there is no statute on the books.</p>

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<p>This.</p>

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<p>Lots of the times, though, women want to keep the house not for sound financial reasons but for EMOTIONAL ones. Because if husband left they think they and their kids “deserve” it or “why should she/the kids be punished when he cheated/whatever.” </p>

<p>Slowly between taxes, bad furnaces/roofs and lawn/pool care they realize they are in over their head and the property starts to deteriorate. Merely making the mortgage isn’t enough.</p>

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<p>I am a divorced mom who kept the house. But I have a very good job (better than my ex), and have been able to maintain the house. That said, now that the last one is off at college, I will be selling in the next two years (and have to get the roof repaired yet this fall!). If I didn’t have a strong financial position, and the energy to do all the yard work, I would have been better off without the house.</p>

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<p>It is a sad thing to have to do, but I have emphasized to my two Ds that they need to be financially independent, and should stay at least partially involved in the workplace after they have kids. You never know if something is going to happen to your spouse or if you will unexpectedly end up divorced – you need to be able to take care of yourself if necessary. They have seen that this has been a very good thing for them that I did this (good thing someone has their backs on college tuition, and they could stay in our house), so I believe they will take this advice.</p>

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<p>Specifically why I bought a condo after my divorce…no roof and they care for the front yard and pool!</p>

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sad, but prudent. And not always about divorce. I give my girls the same advice because when I was on maternity leave with D1, two couples in our immediate family/circle of friends lost a parent of small children completely unexpectedly. In both cases, they were young families who hadn’t yet gotten around to estate planning and the financial consequences were awful.</p>