<p>to be blunt – it is none of your business and it is irrelevant.</p>
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<p>statistics can be misused enough when they are accurate without someone making up statistics for the sake of trying to prove a point. you are drawing conclusions about Orthodox Jews that are not warranted. “Orthodox Jews” doesn’t describe a homogeneous group. Personally, I find it demonstrates a lack of understanding of the wide range of people and experiences within Orthodox Judaism to make such statements.</p>
<p>Many Orthodox Jews would not attend a secular school so as not to have to face such decisions. But there are Orthodox Jews who, for a variety of reasons, do attend secular schools and they make various decisions as to how they will respect their religious beliefs in that context.</p>
<p>I know many “cafeteria” Catholics, but not many “cafeteria” Orthodox Jews who would place observance of rituals over attendance of an event such as a graduation during Holy Sabbath.</p>
<p>"But, I must say that if to be truly observant she should have chosen not to attend at all, then the spin that she chose beliefs over the speach loses credibility. Question? Can the LOC give some sort of dispensation? If she could attend, could she also give the speach? "</p>
<p>the issue was not giving a speech, it was using a microphone. </p>
<p>THe local orthodox rabbi (a term of art, especially where there are enough orthodox jews that different orthodox rabbis with different outlooks are present) does not normally grant a dispensation (heter) but answers questions about the law.</p>
<p>As to who is truely observant not all “observant Jews” or even all orthodox Jews agree. There is also a concept in jewish law called “being machmir” or extra strict. there are many things that a given orthodox jew would accept as being within the law, but would CHOOSE not to do, because its not his family custom, or “it just doesnt feel right” or whatever. Personally I think ultraorthodox judaism is being strangled by excessive chumras “strictnesses” now - or rather we need to be more mekula (lenient) on ritual matters, and more machmir on ethics (I got this idea from R Brad Artson of the Zeigler school).</p>
<p>I can very well imagine a chabad rabbi clarifying the law, and telling this young woman not to worry about custom or chumra on this occasion.</p>
<p>"I know many “cafeteria” Catholics, but not many “cafeteria” Orthodox Jews who would place observance of rituals over attendance of an event such as a graduation during Holy Sabbath. "</p>
<p>I see no evidence that she failed to fullfill ALL required rituals for the yom tov. which, BTW, are rather limited for an orthodox FEMALE to begin with.</p>
<p>“I know many “cafeteria” Catholics, but not many “cafeteria” Orthodox Jews who would place observance of rituals over attendance of an event such as a graduation during Holy Sabbath”</p>
<p>of course youve never lived as orthodox or even conservative jew, and have no idea what the actual required rituals are, how they apply differentially to a male or female, how many can be done at home at leisure, or how fast an orthodox congregation can daven (since you seem to have gotten your knowledge of shavout from the innerweb)</p>
<p>We all dont know what time the graduation was.</p>
<p>cellardweller, you are usually pretty careful to talk from knowledge. You are clearly not doing that here. Unbelievablem is absolutely right about the variety of experience that fits comfortably under the rubric of Orthodox Judaism, and Brooklynborndad is speaking out of knowledge and experience. Furthermore, if you were questioning the validity of MY Jewish practice, say, observance of Yom Kippur, because I am not shomer shabbos and do not keep kosher, I would be very, very offended. So you are walking in dangerous territory.</p>
<p>I could agree with that. Then why all this rigmarole about the microphone! Don’t worry about a custom which most Jews would follow in this occasion but worry instead about one that only the most ultra-orthodox would follow. It is just plain inconsistent!</p>
<p>"I could agree with that. Then why all this rigmarole about the microphone! Don’t worry about a custom which most Jews would follow in this occasion but worry instead about one that only the most ultra-orthodox would follow. It is just plain inconsistent! "</p>
<p>because the ban on use of a microphone on yom tov is NOT a chumra of the ultraorthodox. It IS the standard of orthodox practice (the only exception I know is one synagogue in baltimore, they rely on a very unusual legal precedent, and even at that they use a “special” microphone that I assume the school in calif did not have). </p>
<p>Conservative jews DO use microphones on shabbot or yom tov (they use electricity on shabbot and yom tov in general). But this young lady is NOT a Conservative Jew, she is Orthodox.</p>
<p>I don’t question your and anybody else’s Jewish practice. I am not Jewish so you have to excuse my lack of knowledge of the intricacies of Judaism which I do understand is very diverse. On this story, I just checked with some Jewish friends of mine (both Reform and Orthodox) who expressed the same surprise about her decision to attend the graduation. Second hand information is always dangerous. I apologize for having offended you even if it was totally unintentional.</p>
<p>When I was in college, I knew plenty of Jewish students who were observant in some respects but who made compromises in other areas. The degree to which they were willing to compromise varied among individuals. Some ignored the rules about turning electric lights on and off on the Sabbath in shared dorm rooms (mostly because they did not want to burden their non-Jewish or non-observant roommates with the problem); others observed the rules strictly. Some would eat vegetarian items at non-kosher campus dining facilities if their schedules made it impossible to get to the less centrally located kosher dining facility for a meal; others would not. Some would pin their dorm keys to their clothing when they went out on the Sabbath, others carried them even though there was no eruv at the time, and still others left their rooms unlocked (although students who shared rooms generally did not consider this last option acceptable because of risks to the roommate’s possessions).</p>
<p>Making some degree of compromise in one’s level of observance seems to be common among observant Jewish students who attend secular educational institutions. In my experience, observant students are generally tolerant of these individual differences.</p>
<p>Edited to delete a critical remark aimed at cellardweller, who posted an apology at the same time that I was writing this, thus making the critical remark inappropriate.</p>
<p>custom “minhag” and law “halacha” are terms of art in Jewish law. What you may consider a custom may in fact be a law, not a custom. You cant go by the songs from Fiddler on the Roof for this one, Im afraid.</p>
<p>That’s exactly my interpretation as well - that she is a BT and therefore moving steadily and slowly towards full observance. She’s begun to do certain things (e.g., cover herself) and she’s moving towards full observance and as such she’s walking places on the Sabbath and not using electricity. Cellardweller, are you familiar with Chabad? This is exactly what they do - they counsel more-secular Jews to move towards a more Orthodox lifestyle and provide guidelines as to how to reconcile the two. The Chabad rabbi may very well have recognized that having her not attend was problematic at this stage in her life, so here’s an option to ask the school about, and whaddya know, the school granted it so everyone was happy.</p>
<p>"I don’t question your and anybody else’s Jewish practice. I am not Jewish so you have to excuse my lack of knowledge of the intricacies of Judaism which I do understand is very diverse. On this story, I just checked with some Jewish friends of mine (both Reform and Orthodox) who expressed the same surprise about her decision to attend the graduation. Second hand information is always dangerous. I apologize for having offended you even if it was totally unintentional. "</p>
<p>with all due respect, I imagine few lay Reform jews are very familiar with the issues surrounding the use of electricity on shabbat/yomtov in jewish law.</p>
<p>As for Orthodox jews, if they never attended public school, they likely didnt encounter the need to attend a graduation that took place on yom tov.</p>
Because the microphone is the problem. It is using electricity – an unambiguous no-no. Making the speech, attending graduation – apparently that’s all reasonably debatable from within an Orthodox perspective. Using the microphone isn’t. (I think Slithey Tove was wrong when s/he implied you could cook on Shavuot.)</p>
<p>Don’t try to put an overlay from some other religion or culture on Orthodox Judaism. Observance of this holiday does not necessarily mean complete withdrawal from normal activity in the secular world. It means following the commandments associated with the holiday. Which include not using electricity or internal combustion engines, or carrying anything brought from home in public (as often very, very technically defined), but does not necessarily include attending high school graduation or making a speech.</p>
<p>By the way, pages and pages ago I had the same reaction cellardweller got from his Jewish friends: What was she doing at graduation in the first place? My mom never let me play soccer on Rosh Hashanah! But Brooklynborndad schooled me, too. And I didn’t suggest that it was wrong to accommodate her because she wasn’t the most extreme Orthodox Jewish girl on the planet.</p>
<p>“(I think Slithey Tove was wrong when s/he implied you could cook on Shavuot.)”</p>
<p>You CAN cook on yom tov, but only FOR yom tov. This creates an issue when a shabbat follows yom tov, since you want to prepare hot food for shabbat - I dont care to go into the loophole used to get around THAT in front of hostile folks (but you can google on Eruv tavshilin if it matters to you)</p>
<p>also you can carry on yom tov, whether or not there is an eruv.</p>
<p>no, that was correct. on shavuot you cannot “kindle” a flame but you can transfer a flame. so you cannot turn on an electric oven. if you have a gas oven with a gas pilot that is always lit, you can use it. you can cook the food, provided the heat source you are using is acceptable – ie either something that was left on or that constitutes a transferring rather than kindling of a flame. On Shabbat, even if the oven is left on, there are issues as to what is and isn’t permissible – heating something already cooked more likely ok than cooking to begin with. (at least this is my understanding) On Shabbat we take a break from “creating,” so you don’t do things that “change” the world – cooking is not permitted in addition to the restriction on kindling and transferring a flame.</p>
<p>you can keep something warm on shabbot (with a “blech”) but generally not transform it - though even my straight out of 17th century Hungary inlaws will use their (kept warm) hot water to make instant coffee. which enables me to get a caffeine fix there on shabbat. The real mystery is that some of them think its worth drinking sanka.</p>
<p>Apparently the school didn’t think the accommodation was problematic:</p>
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<p>Frankly, this is a heart-warming human interest story, not a “mockery of education.”
And if anything, the explanation will be educational for the other students.
It’s always good to learn about other cultures / ways of doing things, POIH, especially when (in this case) they really don’t impact or harm anyone.</p>
<p>Wow. Thank you both. Since I have never been a strict observer of any of these holidays OR shabbat, I have obviously never focused on the differences.</p>
<p>I think non-Jewish readers of this thread are getting a nice sense of the sometimes comic technical quality of Jewish law regarding commandments. It ain’t your romantic version of ecstatic spirituality. Sometimes it’s more like preparing a really complicated tax return with lots of shelters and credits.</p>
<p>Hold on a second!</p>
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<p>Say what? That’s got to be a misprint. Tuesday. Wednesday was the first day of the holiday. Unless someone wants to explain why recording it on Wednesday was OK, but not amplifying it on Thursday . . .</p>