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<p>On the same note what do you think poster have more knowledge to post “Here in American Education”?</p>
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<p>No, you don’t. I consider superstitions that have no factual basis. I’ve problem people citing those superstitions to bend rules.</p>
<p>You say many of your friends and relatives are religious. I would assume most would follow some rituals, traditions, customs whether they are Hindi, Muslim, Christian or Jewish. Most of these traditions would fall under your classification as superstitions as they are typically based on religious texts or customs, not some natural rule or facts. Are all these friends and relatives uneducated and stupid?</p>
<p>For instance, a Hindu friend is vegetarian because he follows Dharmic law. Is he uneducated? What if he also says he does it because he believes it is healthier? Is he still uneducated because he presents a rational basis for his action even if it is not a medically provable fact? </p>
<p>Another Hindu friend is not vegetarian but only eats meat slaughtered using the shakta tradition. If he refuses to eat meat you have prepared in your kitchen but which is not shakta meat, is he uneducated because the basis for his choice is based on superstition not fact? </p>
<p>Are all Hindus following the code of conduct of the Dharma Sutras with all its do’s and don’t of food consumption, many based on superstitions with no factual basis, uneducated?</p>
<p>PS: I am using these examples because I am assuming you are South-Asian, but the hypotheticals could be translated into virtually any religious/cultural context.</p>
<p>*On the same note what do you think poster have more knowledge to post “Here in American Education”? *</p>
<p>Can you rewrite this so it’s understandable?</p>
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<p>Marian provided you with a very respectfully-worded answer to that question already.</p>
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<p>cellardweller:#486</p>
<p>I’ve repeatedly indicated that I’ve no problem with anyone living their life style.</p>
<p>But if a friend of mine come to my home and refuse to eat a vegetarian food because it’s cooked in a kitchen where meat has been cooked or refuse to eat meat because it is not cut a specific way then I do consider them uneducated.</p>
<p>I always figure I’ve got everyone beat because I have experience in so many educational systems.</p>
<p>Preschool - in Thailand and US
Kindergarten - Japanese school
1st-3rd - Japan international school, British books
4th-5th grade - Somalia homeschooled/one room school house
6th grade - Somalia American School
7th-8th grade - Public Junior High School (both with tracking and the year they abolished it)
9th-12th grade - private school - 3 years day, 1 year boarding
gap year - French language institute and audited courses at the Univeresity of Tours
4 years of Private College
4 years of Grad School
1/2 year working at Caltech in a library
1 semester Pasadena Community College
3 mos. Goethe Institute
a number of courses of German Adult Education Courses (Chinese, Italian, Watercolor painting and a course on music and architecture)
Continuing education courses required by my field</p>
<p>Beat that! I’m an education expert. ;)</p>
<p>POIH, I think you are using the word “uneducated” improperly. I also think if you insist on continuing to use the word the way you are you will just be antagonizing people. You may not mind that, and if you do not even take that into consideration, in my opinion, you are not following The Golden Rule.</p>
<p>What RULE did the val break? She gave her speech. There is no rule that the speech must be on a microphone. Her school was happy to have her speech recorded. She did not even ask for that accommodation. In our country, there is freedom of religion and the school apparently did not want the girl to have to go against her faith and religious practice. But no rules were broken for this girl. It was no different than an accommodation for a handicapped girl to get her diploma via a ramp to the podium or a Sikh student wearing a turban or a Catholic student wearing a cross. It was no different than the atheist who did not state the Pledge of Allegiance “under God” at the ceremony. No rules were broken and none of these things affected or “interfered” with others on graduation day.</p>
<p>What you call “rules” or “normal” behavior just isn’t so. No rules were broken in this case. And what you consider normal is not necessarily so, because here in America, there are many cultures, religions and traditions and one is not more normal than the next.</p>
<p>Deborah T: Unfortunately, I think POIH actually IS following the Golden Rule, which says something like “Treat others the way you would like to be treated.”</p>
<p>What POIH is not doing is following a principle that is more sophisticated than the Golden Rule but more applicable to a multicultural society, namely, “Treat others the way THEY would like to be treated.”</p>
<p>Deborah T: I’m not sure what other word to choose. You might be able to help.</p>
<p>I think education bring to people ability to go past superstitions. What you want to call people who are unable to come out of such superstitions.</p>
<p>Let me clarify a little more what a superstition is. (specially for soozievt as he/she bring dress code to it without any relevance)</p>
<p>Any action a person normally do but unable to do on a specific location, day or way because of a belief is considered superstition.</p>
<p>For example:</p>
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<li><p>The valedictorian in question normally speak through microphone but refuse to do so on graduation day.</p></li>
<li><p>A vegetarian eat vegetarian food every day but refuse to eat because it’s cooked in a utensil that is not meant for vegetarian or don’t eat at places where meat is served or where people who eat meat live.</p></li>
<li><p>A non-vegetarian who eats meat regularly but refuse to eat meat because it’s cooked in a oven that is not kosher or don’t eat meat that is cut in particular way or don’t eat because it’s not kosher/Halal.</p></li>
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<p>What you call people who are unable to come out of such superstitions?</p>
<p>And it was interesting to note that POIH wouldn’t use the word to describe your daughter as “uneducated”. Only that she was" literate but not educated", or that “her education was a waste” if she chose to follow kashrut dietary laws.</p>
<p>Calling people “uneducated” is offensive, especially around here, when obviously many (read mathmom’s post) have far more education, and even from schools you feel worthy!</p>
<p>As I wrote much earlier in the thread, POIH, your D, who attends the fine institution of MIT, is going to school with a lot of UNEDUCATED people according to YOUR criteria for what it means to be “educated.” She even has many UNEDUCATED professors who practice various traditions, rituals, and customs of their religions and who would not break from those customs around food, holidays, clothing, etc., and not due to superstition, but due to wanting to uphold the customs of their religious group. You may consider that “breaking the rules” (whose rules???) and “superstitious,” and “uneducated,” but most liberal Americans who are educated would not agree. You are entitled to your point of view, but it is not an “educated” point of view or a “liberal” point of view and in fact, runs contrary to what is taught in the American school system.</p>
<p>POIH:</p>
<p>I am taking you to your own words:</p>
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<p>Based on that statement I have to conclude you cannot possibly approve of a school offering Kosher or vegetarian meals to students for religious reasons. (not facts according to your own definition). Ham and cheese sandwich for everybody or skip lunch. </p>
<p>You could also not possibly reconcile your position with students staying home during religious holidays. (They are bending the rules of attendance by using superstitions as an argument). No make up exams allowed. They should be reprimanded and get an automatic F. </p>
<p>You can quickly see how your stated position is untenable in a modern society such as the US with diverse beliefs and faiths. The US is not India, China or Russia where a majority can impose its will on the minority. That is precision why many people emigrated to this country. You should actually be happy that your religious friends and relatives can practice their religions with minimum interference.</p>
<p>jym626: If you think “uneducated” is offensive then let stick to “literate and not educated”.
I never had any intention to offend anyone but certainly believe that if you can’t come out of superstition then the education is waste.</p>
<p>So will go forward with “literate and not educated”.</p>
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<p>I call these people devoted and committed to the traditions and customs of their religious belief systems and values and who don’t fear repercussions, but rather conform to the laws and traditions of their culture/religion. I call most people tolerant and liberal and educated who can understand and respect others’ beliefs and customs even if they themselves do not agree with or believe the same. I respect that you appear to be agnostic and don’t question that you are not normal or educated or broke any rules. I tolerate our differences. Try it sometime. It truly is the American way.</p>
<p>Interesting take on the word superstition. To me a superstition is something you do or don’t do to avoid something bad happening such as: not walking under a ladder, not stepping on a sidewalk crack, avoiding having a black cat cross your path, knocking on wood when you say something, thinking that the #13 is unlucky, dreading Friday the 13th, etc. </p>
<p>I think a lot of people have chimed in about this already but following religious tenets as part of a path of self discipline in deference to your faith doesn’t have the same purpose as what I think of behind traditional superstitions.</p>
<p>Mostly I try to avoid calling people names altogether, POIH. :)</p>
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<p>I certainly don’t mind anyone offering any kind of food. If I’m in the service selling business and most of clients are kosher loving then I’ll oblige them with kosher meat.
On the same note I’ll offer vegetarian food cooked in special utensil. </p>
<p>But I’ll still consider them “literate and not educated”.</p>
<p>It’s my liberal attitude that I’ll oblige superstitious people with what they want and that’s what “American Education” do. It bend rules to accomodate superstitious people.</p>
<p>Liberal tends to do that.</p>
<p>POIH, do you condone students being absent to observe their religious holiday even when their school doesn’t close for that holiday since their religion is in the minority (in other words, schools close for Christmas, which is a religious holiday that many, but not all, observe)? Do you think, for example, that Jewish children should be allowed to miss school for Passover or Rosh Hashanah since school is closed for Christians on Easter and XMas?</p>