<p>S has had several speeding tix, couple of fender benders, and one serious accident (thank god, no one hurt) all since starting college. All except major accident were with the family car, while at home. Accident was in roommate’s borrowed car at school. We don’t suspect alcohol was involved in these events. (But a lead foot was) We had a strict agreement that he will not drink and drive, which he agreed to. This discussion has been rehashed many times - we know he will drink, but do not drink and drive, or get in car with someone who has. Promises were made and reassurances given, over and over. But our gut? Not true. Last week, I put it to the test and said if S wants help paying for new laptop (old one crashed), then take an alcohol test (the night after he went out). He refused. Ok, well, here’s one dilemma (there are several): All of our discussions and efforts were to try and keep him SAFE during his “less than stellar decision making period” of his life. We bought our family car because it is big and “safe”. Some of his friends drink more carelessly than he does, and have match box cars that have no protection on the road. If we make the family car off limits, he will undoubtedly ask for rides out from less responsible, less safe friends. And, when he returns to school in a few weeks, he’s off on his own again and – what has been learned? We really want to HELP him make more responsible decisions, while keeping him safe. How? (Please, we don’t need any “he made his bed” or “make him borrow a car” kind of answers here.) Tough love only to a point – We want him alive! And to learn how to keep himself that way while being a somewhat typical college kid.</p>
<p>I would require him to take a defensive driving class- so that he can learn to be a better driver- and he would have to pay you back for it- if he wants to continue having help with paying for college.</p>
<p>A good course will cover safety issues when driving ( and riding) including substances and how they affect you.</p>
<p>If he is under 21 (?) he can sign up for free defensive driving class at driversedge.org ([Driver’s</a> Edge](<a href=“http://driversedge.org/]Driver’s”>http://driversedge.org/)).</p>
<p>It’s a non profit organization that gives real experience to newly licensed kids. I’m waiting for it to come to an area near us so I can get lead foot DS in a class.</p>
<p>Make sure he understands that a DUI on his record will be VERY damaging when it comes to his job search and/or professional school admissions. Many in this age group (especially boys) think they are invincible and “nothing will happen”. They are wrong, but sometimes the only way to get through to them is to give them a true understanding of ALL The consequences (besides serious injury or death to themselves or others). My WildChild does respect the no drinking/driving restriction and imposes it on himself, but it was fairly easy since he was at an urban school where they took cabs or walked to clubs and parties. He, too, had speeding tickets and a pretty bad non-alcohol related wreck.
It’s a tough issue and I feel for you as a parent (been there).</p>
<p>If it were me - </p>
<ol>
<li>He’d pay for all the tickets.</li>
<li>He’d pay for any accident costs.</li>
<li>He’d pay for his own insurance.</li>
<li>He wouldn’t be driving my car anymore - if he wants a car let him save up some money and buy one himself.</li>
<li>I’d inform him that if I ever determined he drove (even his own car) after drinking, I’d no longer allow him access to any car, even his own, and would cease supporting him if need be to get the point through.</li>
</ol>
<p>If you fall into the trap of providing him a car, paying for his mistakes, etc. under the auspices that you’re ‘keeping him safe’, you may actually be contributing to the opposite by him thinking he can get away with what he wants and not learning from his mistakes and not taking your guidance and rules seriously which will only endanger him and others more.</p>
<p>He needs to have enough sense to watch out for himself and if he doesn’t he could end up suffering the consequences. There’s only so much you can do here without keeping him tethered. He needs to have the good sense to not drink and drive and not get into a car with a driver who’s been drinking regardless of how large the car is (plenty of people get killed in accidents in larger cars/SUVs - not just smaller cars) just as he needs to have the good sense to not wander into dangerous areas of a city, look both ways before crossing the street, etc. It’s tough as a parent but you’re limited in what you can do other than try to teach him, provide guidance, and impose some rules - it’s up to him to make the judgment calls.</p>
<p>^^ What UCLA dad says.</p>
<p>If he drives a big car while drunk, he is much more likely to kill someone else pedestrian or other driver / passengers on the road. You’re essentially deciding that it’s better your son kill someone else than kill himself while driving irresponsibily.</p>
<p>My parents did not provide a car in college nor did they pay insurance. They told me plain and simple that I could ride my bike anywhere I needed to go. It was true. I survived 5 years without owning a car. Certainly, your son could manage as well. If you want to keep him safe – and keep those who are sharing the road with him safe – don’t provide a vehicle while at college.</p>
<p>I think most teenagers do think they are invincable, and I felt the same as well. The part of the brain that develops a fear of bad things happening didn’t develop until I was around 24 or 25. Nothing you could say or do would have caused me to realize the serious consequences of my actions.</p>
<p><a href=“Please,%20we%20don’t%20need%20any%20%22he%20made%20his%20bed%22%20or%20%22make%20him%20borrow%20a%20car%22%20kind%20of%20answers%20here.”>quote</a>
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<p>Whoops, missed this on the first go around. All I can say is make sure you more than sufficient liability coverage and prepare yourself for the phone call when your son calls and says, “Dad, I was in a car accident and just killed someone…she was a 6 year old girl and I didn’t see her crossing the street.”</p>
<p>Melodramatic? Perhaps…does it happen? All the time.</p>
<p>Okay, you want to keep your kid alive. But he’s doing his best to kill or maim himself. His behavior sounds to me–daughter of an alcoholic and with a (dead) alcoholic MIL–like borderline alcoholism. </p>
<p>He’s presumably just finished his first year of college.</p>
<p>It’s time to set some serious rules: he can stop drinking or you can stop paying tuition. If he’s using the family car, he enables his cell phone for internet tracking (a service AT&T provides for a whole $10/month) and you pay attention to where it goes.</p>
<p>I don’t want to sound harsh. However, while the discussion has been about keeping your son safe, there has been little mention of the other people on the road he could injure or kill because of his irresponsibility. You may not be able to protect him, but perhaps you need to think about protecting others from him.</p>
<p>I see Bigtrees has already posted on this issue.</p>
<p>My HS friend flipped her “safe” family car and killed her passenger, another friend.
We are in our 40s now and I still think about that incident and the families involved.</p>
<p>While he’s at home this summer, you can step up the supervision, so that he knows you are paying attention. I’m another vote for considering eliminating the car at school. On most college campuses, a car is not necessary, anyway.</p>
<p>We also provide a car for D1 to use while she is at home and away at school. Our deal is also no DUI, one is for safety and another is it´s a bad record to wipe off. If I thought D1 was DUI, I would take the car away from her. You may think your son is too old to lay down any rules or force him to do anything, but I would offer (or insist) to drop/pick him up from places. On week nights, if you need to go to bed early then the pick up time is 10. I am sure he´ll think he is too old for all of this, then guess what, he could move out and support himself if doesn´t want to abide by your rules.</p>
<p>When D1 was in high school, I used to stay up whenever she went out. She always came into my room to tell me about the party before she went to bed. It was a good way for me to see she has been drinking. If I have suspected she was drinking, I would have bought breatherizer to make sure. But luckily we didn´t have to do that.</p>
<p>This sounds harsh, but by not allowing your son not to drive while drunk is saving his life as well lives of other people. I would take a hard line.</p>
<p>Keeping him safe by putting him in a bigger car? KEEPING HIM SAFE? How about **keeping the rest of us safe ** by keeping a dangerous, possibly drunk driver off the road??</p>
<p>I just can’t tell you how much it infuriates me that someone would buy a bigger car, just to make sure it’s the other driver dying instead of him. Do you realize how selfish that sounds?</p>
<p>How old is this kid, who has already had three accidents, one of them serious? How many people have to be injured or die before you get this menace off the road?</p>
<p>S does not have a car at school. Uses our car when home, and borrows cars while at school. (New to me, but apparently very common).</p>
<p>You must have nerves of steel to let your son drive your car. That is crazy. His or your insurance must be astronomical! Who pays those premiums? The fact that he refused an alcohol test is a red flag. One thing I admire about today’s teens (as compared to when I was that age) is that most understand the seriousness of drinking and driving. I have 2 teenagers and I have told them that if they ever drink to never, ever get in a car. Call us, no questions asked and we will come get you. Many young adults (of age) often use designated drivers when they go out with a group. No excuses today. Your son is risking your financial security every time he drives with a history of speeding tix and accidents. My brother is an attorney who used to sue people like you for a living when their well meaning child kills or seriously injures someone. He has taken peoples homes, savings, future earnings. You pay the price not your son (unless he goes to jail). I wouldn’t worry about being too harsh on the tough love front. Speeding, accidents, driving and drinking are signs that your son is too immature to drive a car, let alone your car. I would take his keys, tell him to find a ride. If he is dopey enough to grab a ride with friends who make the same bad decisions he does then so be it. It scares me to think that kids who think the way he thinks share the road with me! You love him and want him alive but eventually he will be on his own and if he doesn’t get it now, one day he will hit and kill someone. To monitor his driving purchase a car chip. We have one in our car that my kids drive. It tells if they speed, brake harshley etc. You can pull it out at any time, pop it in your computer and viola! you can see if they are driving like idiots. Our rule is if you are, you aren’t driving our car. It works. Speeding while sober kills too and these are serious issues. I don’t know if you are paying for his college education but if you are the minute he refused an alcohol test, I would refuse to pay a tuition bill. Sounds as if he wears the pants in the family and I really don’t mean to sound harsh but stop being his friend and be his parent. It is a matter of time before you all pay the price and for the record I don’t think it is normal that college kids have a history of multiple speeding tickets or accidents. I would take his keys away, forbid him from driving my cars and remove him from my insurance. I would tell him that if he took my car, I would call the police. He will be nice and safe in jail.</p>
<p>
There’s some good news in this. For any of these incidents that had police contact (all the tickets and presumably the serious accident and maybe some of the fender benders) they likely would have detected if your S was drinking and he’d have already been hauled to jail and given a DUI for it. This means he likely wasn’t drinking during all of these events and that he’s simply (simply???) a bad driver who can’t navigate a car properly and speeds where he shouldn’t and likely doesn’t pay enough attention to the road to detect the presence of cops or notice how others are driving. This actually eases the situation if he has at least enough sense to not drink and drive although if it were me I’d still follow all the actionas I said in my earlier post.</p>
<p>Your S sounds like a good candidate for the courts to suspend his license for a while. But you don’t need to leave this up to the courts - you can just have him hand over his DL for some period of time so some consequences can sink in a bit and maybe he’ll change his behavior.</p>
<p>There’s really nothing you can do to prevent him from riding with others when he shouldn’t other than provide guidance and inform him of some consequences (lose financial support from you since you don’t want to enable the behavior, etc.) if you were to catch him at it. This is the time he needs to decide for himself whether he’ll exercise good judgment or not (if he’s been drinking he likely won’t exercise good judgment even he he does while sober).</p>
<p>Oh…kay… (she says, very careful wading into the firestorm that is the alcohol conversation on CC :D)…</p>
<p>If it is my car and I allow my child to drive it, knowing he/she is potentially driving drunk, then I am putting my child in a deadly weapon…</p>
<p>Personally, if I suspected my kid was driving my big car drunk, I’d require a pee test the following day. Refuse the pee test, give up the car. Resume the pee tests, after a suitable period of time, resume driving the car. I wouldn’t even get emotional, just matter of fact.</p>
<p>-Don’t pay off his speeding tickets.</p>
<p>-Don’t pay off any repair costs due to his accidents. Make him pay. If he can’t pay for them, tell him you’re using his tuition money to pay for repairs. </p>
<p>-Make him pay for any increase cost in your car insurance due to his negligent driving.</p>
<p>-Explain to him that he’s had more than enough warnings regarding his negligent behavior and if he ends up in jail, don’t use up his phone call to call you to bail him out. </p>
<p>-Don’t keep trying to fix his screw-ups.
Until he has to deal with the repercussions of his actions, he’s not going to change.</p>
<p>-Be clear in your expectations and set consequences. It sounds as though you’ve given him too many free passes as it is. </p>
<p>-Don’t you think it’s about time you stop handing him the keys to your car?</p>
<p>We also have an agreement with D1 that she is not to anyone drive her car. It is too much liability to us. When you allow someone to drive your car, you are making a judgement call that he/she is a responsible driver. If he/she should get into an accident and injur someone, you would also be on the hook. The injured party will go after whoever has the deepest packet. Do not think just because it´s not your kid behind the wheel, then you have no liability. I personally know someone who almost lost all of his assets because he let his brother drive his car, who killed a woman driver, and it wasn´t even really his brother´s fault. Think really hard before you let anyone drive your car.</p>
<p>I’m with UCLA dad. We had an understanding with our daughter when she got her license. No tickets. Zero tolerance. We would pay her insurance ($$$$), but would stop paying if she got a ticket. The surcharges are just too expensive. We also told her that, if she ever drove after drinking even one drink, that would be the end of car and insurance. </p>
<p>I’m also with OLDFORT. Our daughter took a car to college for senior year and we told her the family policy was nobody borrows the car (“for insurance reasons”). She told us after the year was over that it was the best thing we ever did for her, because it gave her the perfect out to not be the ZIPCAR service for her friends.</p>
<p>We just took our car away from our daughter who we felt was not capable of driving in a safe way. We were unsure if she was driving under the influence. She has moved out of the house and I suppose she is relying on others for rides to work and school (if she is even going) but at least I know that she will not kill herself and/or others because she did not belong behind the wheel. Do what you must to make him understand that his driving record indicates that he is not to be trusted behind the wheel. How would you ever live with yourself if your son or a innocent driver was killed because you did not take a firm stand?</p>
<p>It is a tough situation when you know you cannot trust your child with something that is so important and can even mean life or death. One of my kids was so untrustworthy regarding anything including alcohol and driving, that I just never let him get his driver’s license. So he just drove other people’s cars without a license and rode with some drivers that were as reckless as he. You really cannot win in a situation like that. You can try to keep them as safe as you can, but if they are truly reckless, they’ll find some way around your safeguards. Trust me, I’ve been through that one. And let me tell you, most of you who think your kid is not lending out the car don’t know what is happening. I know my son borrowed cars (with the drivers’ permission and they fully knew he had no license and issues with driving) from many, many kids. A number of those parents proudly crow that they have an iron clad rule about not lending out the car and the kids are obeying. Ha. As a couple of them found out the hard way, what a lot of baloney. There isn’t a parent I know who doesn’t tell his/her kid that the car is absolutely, positively not to be lent out. Do you know ANYONE who tells their kid that it’s all right to let another kid borrow the car? Yet they borrow cars all over the place at college.</p>
<p>While visiting one kid at college, I watched a kid throw his car keys to another kid who wanted to run out to get something. He didn’t even look that way, it was so automatic. As the borrower started to leave, the car owner told the kid that he had better not disappear with the vehicle for the weekend like he did last time. Yeah, this really happened. You think that parent knows his car is being lent out like that? And when I told my brother about this, he laughed and confessed that he lent out MY car when he took it to college for a couple of weeks and someone disappeared for a weekend trip with it when he tossed the keys to them. Some thing don’t change. The insurance reasons is the same old story everyone tells and is not at all effective. </p>
<p>My son has been arrested twice for driving without a license, and someone else’s car was impounded when it happened. Both kids with parents who would have sworn on their lives and their kids’ that the car was never loaned out. Especially to someone like my son. And you know that there aren’t just two roaches in a kitchen. Being caught twice, and my finding out a half dozen other times means that he does it all of the time. His friends, by the way, are considered great kids by every measure, smart and well behaved. They lend him the car.</p>
<p>The pluses of the way we handled the situation is that we still have insurance. If he were listed as a driver in our household, we would have been in big trouble. He also does not drive our car, just other kids’ cars. So he was limited to cars and rides when others would let him have them instead of having ready access to our car or a car of his own. It decreased some of the risk by reducing the opportunities. </p>
<p>I would not allow my kids to drive if I suspected they were drinking or were risky. Doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t be driving, but at least I have not contributed to the crime and did what I could to keep an unsafe driver off the road. I personally don’t think any kids should have cars at college. What is done with the cars make my hair curl. The one saving grace about the drinking that goes on at college is that it is usually done in a small area and does not involve motor vehicles. Those fool parents that give their kids cars at college are the ones that providing the risk factors that have been reduced by natural fact that kids don’t really need cars at college. </p>
<p>Came back from a 5 college tour and at one of the schools, saw 8 kids packed in a little Toyota, racing down the road. I wonder what those parents think is being done with that car.</p>