when Christmas is never the same again ever

Parent Cafe
161

Just to offer another view (not a contradictory one, just a different one), I come from a very small family. Basically just my parents and me- my sister has been in and out of our lives. My grandparents died when I was 3 and the other set are essentially non-existent in my life. No aunts, uncles, or cousins were every really around since we’re scattered through the country. So it was almost always just my parents and me- and my SO for the last decade (2 different SOs).

Mr R comes from a VERY large family with their own traditions. My SIL who comes from a large family has fit right in with the chaos but my other SIL and I who both come from very small families haven’t adjusted real well. I can only spend a limited amount of time with the big family before I start feeling very overwhelmed. It doesn’t help that we have very different views on religion and politics and they always insist on bring them up.

Mr R has integrated into my family’s traditions WAY better than I’ve integrated with his. I’m close with a handful of his cousins and I’m much closer to one of his brothers than my own sister so I appreciate spending time with them but the whole bunch? No thanks. Too much for someone who grew up without that.

However, I’m very close with my parents. I imagine it would be much different if we had a less close relationship. Mr R has a very… odd? relationship with his parents. We spend a lot of time with them but there is a frozen layer between them. That’s the only way I can think of to describe it. It’s not really strained, it’s just… odd. Standoffish maybe?

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I am grateful that my kids and H enjoy and are happy to spend time with my sibs, ILs and nieces nephews. H’s parents both died but before they did, FIL lived in SF for 5 years, where H’s brother and sister lived. I’d make a point if always having us fly to SF to spend some time with them in December. We’d often help my SisIL get a tree and set it up and put presents for her under it. We’d also bring gifts for BIL and his two kids.

BIL is now H’s only surviving close relative and we always invite him to vacation with us. He’s now gone on 3 major trips with us. They celebrate in SF and we celebrate in HI. BIL has also started hosting a Chinese New Years party for all relatives so he is trying to coordinate it off when we will be in town to attend.

When BIL and his kids come to HI, we try to help them have the best vacation possible. It’s never felt like a competition to me and H has been a good sport about hanging out with my huge, boisterous family.

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In this era of more equality in marriage and men being more involved as parents, it seems a bit backward to insist that the wife’s family is more important and the husband must bow to her wishes as a few posters have suggested. Of course the couple’s desire for vacation and holidays, but that should apply equally to both sets of parents. There should be compromise and respect for all three legs of the triad: their own family, the wife’s family of origin and the husband’s family of origin.

My best advice would be to really cultivate a great relationship with A so she wants to spend time with your family. Make it a point to get up to the city to see them, and not always have them come to dinner at your place (if that is not already the case) and suggest some weekends away or something if a week long vacation is not viable. But I would also tell your son, without pressure, that it is disappointing that he will not be with your family at the holidays or in the summer. That may well change, however, once they have kids and want to stay home for Christmas day. Or they may end up moving to MN if she is that connected to her mom.

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@mom2and You might be referring to my post, and I wanted to clarify. I did say that once a son marries, IMO that becomes the primary relationship, and his wife comes before his mother. But I would also say that when a daughter marries, she should put her husband first, not her father. It’s not about gender, but about acknowledging that when our kids grow up and create a new family of their own, IMO that is their first concern.

Also IMO it is a wise parent who doesn’t force their adult child to choose. I’m still in the early years of sharing my D with another family, and I’m trying very hard to be like your mother, @SoccerMomGenie , and avoid like the plague being like your MIL.

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" it is a wise parent who doesn’t force their adult child to choose."

Many dittos. I’m not into guilt trips. Both my kids are forming relationships with great people who also have good welcoming families. We have a very small family and I very much want them to enjoy the experience of having a more extended family than just us. I’ll let them decide what to do depending on their circumstances at any point.
I hope that they know that there are a lot of days in the year to visit and enjoy company that doesn’t revolve around holidays.
When I was little we used to shift even birthday celebrations around to different days so we could accommodate schedules and be more relaxed to enjoy the occasion. The result was just a more fun time with less stress.

I used to ask what my mom wanted for Christmas and she always said “I just want everyone to be happy!” and now I know that she really meant it.

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Some interesting perspectives on this thread.

I’m an only child and both of my parents died when dh and and I were engaged. Early on in our marriage we would go spend some Thanksgivings with my aunt, uncle, cousin, and cousin-in-law. But for Christmas, it was a forgone conclusion that we were gong to be at the in-laws’ since there was nowhere else to go. When aunt died, that went for Thanksgiving as well. When ds came along, we spent the first two Christmases driving to be with dh’s parents on Christmas Day. Always with them on Thanksgiving as well, either at our home or thieirs. Dh then took an expat assignment, and we were not in the US for the next two holiday seasons. When we returned, dh did put his foot down and we no longer traveled on Christmas Day proper but always had an alternate weekend to “do” Christmas. I get along well with my mil, but I do not enjoy being around my fil at all. We are expected to be with dh’s parents for some version of Christmas and Thanksgiving every year. We did go visit ds at his school last Thanksgivjng, but short of that, what excuse would we have not to be with them? This year, ds didn’t even come home for Thanksgiving, but they came to our home so the four of us could have Thanksgiving together. My lucky cousin and cousin-in-law went and stayed at a casino resort instead! I would have much preferred that! It would probably be different if I liked my fil. I might not mind it so much. And, yes, part of this is that I do sometimes feel sorry for myself. My in-laws have never had to share. I certainly hope a future dil of mine will have many additional years with her parents. I will do my very best to share and be happy that she has her own family to spend time with.

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What a sad and poignant story. The death of both parents during one’s youth gives new meaning to the title of this thread.

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I’ve been thinking about the role gender expectations play in relationships with our kids after they marry. Today’s young people are a lot more flexible about who does what in relationships. I hope they can get to a point where women aren’t considered the de facto caretakers of traditions, holidays, and extended family relationships. Husbands/sons can pick up phones and make arrangements for the holidays, just as women have done for eons.

As a relatively new grandmother, I’ve been reading the boards on grandparents.com. Some of the young folks there have a policy of “you do yours and I’ll do mine,” meaning that each spouse is responsible for calling and making arrangements with their families of origin for visits. That sounds good to me. My husband has not once in 38 years called my mother for any reason and certainly never arranged to visit her when I wasn’t there. I’ve done the reverse literally dozens of times (but only because I was too dumb to realize there was an alternative :slight_smile: ).

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I’m curious for those who have/had demanding parents/in laws, why do/did you put up with that?@soccermomgenie why was your Mil allowed to control the holidays every year? Is it an issue of guilt? Conflict avoidance? My son is getting married next year at the ripe age of 24 and I will try to be as flexible as possible. His fiancée comes from a large extended family so imagine there will be some holidays I won’t see him. If they ever have kids there is no way I would want them dragging the kids out on Christmas Day. They deserve to be able to stay in their homes and play with their toys.

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Bless my mom and dad - they are the ones who told me that kids need to be in their own homes on Christmas. And they are the ones who came to visit us. I think my in laws got screwed by us because they were so nonchalant I just thought they didn’t care. And I’m still not so sure I’m wrong, I married the black sheep who doesn’t live in chaos.

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Mother of two daughters here and not the default destination. Actually in both cases I dont see my daughters and son in laws, etc until after the other family’s events. We make it a point to have our holidays on whatever date we can manage. Its hard, took time to adjust and I still get sad on Christmas day when they arent there.

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It’s really helpful, reading threads about the holidays. I’m reminded that there is a very wide range of feelings & meaning & rules (or lack of) attached to them.

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@frazzled1 speaking as someone from “that” generation, we do the “you do yours, I’ll do mine” thing. I do not communicate with his parents unless it’s to arrange pet pick-ups and drop-offs (we often watch each other’s dog) and Mr R is at work. My MIL tried to contact me instead of her son early on in the relationship in order to arrange plans. My response, always: “I’m not sure, you’ll have to ask Mr R.” She got the hint and always goes through Mr R now (and Mr R is the one who reaches out to her to make plans).

Luckily, guilt trips would never work on us. Neither Mr R nor I feel guilty about much of anything. The only “good” thing that’s come out of me getting sick in the first few months of our marriage is that we have early on been able to establish a pattern of “we are going to do what is best for us.”

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To the OP, I am late to this thread, but I want to say that I have empathy for your sadness. I think it is part of the extended empty nest, when the adult children can no longer be with us for holidays. I think that your son may have been indelicate, to say the least, in his communication with you. However, don’t take it as a knife to the heart or whatever extreme thoughts you may have had. Try very hard not to take it so hard. You will help yourself. I do think that at a more neutral time you could ask your son why it is necessary to always go to inlaws etc. You are entitled to say that you wish they could be with you on occasion, but you should be very careful not to go too far. I can pretty much guarantee that if you get bent out of shape, rather than rational, it will not go well for you. Also I was glad to see that you had your other son, DIL and grandchild.

This thread brings out a lot of positive and negative feelings that people have concerning extended family, holidays, obligations, respect, etc. I had my own very rough introduction to this from my then future MIL for a particular holiday decades ago when I first was engaged to her son. I never take well to demands, and her performance (complete with a diatribe in her native tongue), will not be forgotten by me unless I become senile. My inlaws continued to demand many things that concerned holidays and other family occasions (involving their family, never mine). They could have cared less about my feelings, my mother (Dad had died years before), and really to be honest, my husband’s feelings (their son). They certainly had their limitations when it came to balancing what they wanted with anyone else’s needs. Also, even though we spent countless holiday, birthdays etc with my inlaws, MIL always continued to lament how her Daughter was not there. (Her D moved across country and was rarely available for her - can you guess why?) However, now that they are both gone, as is my mother, we do miss them, warts, diatribes and all. I only wish that I would have had the presence of mind, years ago not to let it get to me.

For the other posters on this thread, I have to say that a few things on this thread really cracked me up. No guilt trip at all to say that you carried the kids for nine months, so they must do what you say! LOL! Children do not ask to be born. You dragged them into this world screaming, and do not get to make them beholden to you until you die. You may believe that you get to do this, due to culture, family background etc, but this is boundary disorder beyond belief. If it works for your family, so be it.

BTW, people do resent doing things that they do not want to do. This is normal, not dysfunctional. Now of course, there are many things that we must do that we do not want to do. Many people take ***! from their bosses so that they can earn their salary. Many take it from their spouse or SO, when it comes to the in laws in order to have peace in their own home. The real key here is to not have the family come because you will pitch the biggest fit if they don’t. They should come because they want to come, and because it does not require superhuman effort. Expecting superhuman effort is unreasonable. Also, if people must tiptoe around you because you will blow a gasket if they don’t do what you want, I can pretty much guarantee that one day, they won’t be able to please you, and you will blow a gasket.

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Romani, is that rule for just decision making, or do you both agree not to have separate relationships with the other’s parents? I think it’s nice for spouses to have actual relationships with their in–laws. Not to undercut anyone, but just because they are in the same family. I’ve posted before that my husband’s relationship with my mother was a beautiful thing, and my husband and I are both close with our future son-in-law. If you were my daughter in law, I would expect to be calling you regularly to see how you are feeling and whether you needed anything. I would be heartbroken if I couldn’t reach out to support and love a member of my family. Future son-in-law had some fantastic news last week and called to tell me because I had helped him with an aspect of it. I couldn’t be happier for him and with him. Now, I wouldn’t call him directly to see what his thoughts are for a holiday, but I bought my D tickets for something for Christmas and I know he will use the other one, so I checked on his schedule. My D knows that and was pleased to have no conflict.

I can’t imagine my kids telling me that they will never spend Christmas with me. That is devastating. I would also never make demands, but I do expect to be on equal footing with other relatives in terms of consideration, rather than completely excluded.

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Phone lines go in two directions. Sometimes there is an expectation that one party should do all the calling. Oh well.

Anyway…we had our family Christmas yesterday, and it was so much fun!!

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@zoosermom I think it’s great when in-laws get along like family. Not all of them do, though, and families work it out in ways that suit them best. Our holidays and special occasions involve immediate in-laws and in-laws of in-laws and their SO’s and kids. It’s a lot of fun and impressed my ex so much when he was here for a visit with our grown kids that he wrote me thanking me for including him in such a happy group. His own family of origin was nothing like that, and while I liked his parents, they never randomly called me to talk. They didn’t even call their own son for random reasons! But they were nice people and I enjoyed it when they visited. We were, however, two completely different families.

So while I’[m not Romani, there’s a different perspective for you. You may find that as your other children add in-laws, it may not be one big, happy family, but that doesn’t mean it would be wrong.

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Yes. I understand that. The question was whether that is a hard-and-fast rule. Romani has been suffering terrible health problems and it is inconceivable to me that anyone in her extended family couldn’t/wouldn’t at least call and see how she is. My MIL hated me with a raging passion, but she could call me if she chose and did from time to time. Rarely, but I wouldn’t have said that every interaction had to go through her son. I would have never let her pit us against each other, but there were occasions for contact over the decades.

I didn’t say that we had one big, happy family. I said that some in-laws have separate relationships that aren’t precluded by rules about who can speak with whom directly.

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My family of origin is large–I have 6 sibs with me and 5 sibs married. Between us there are 15 if the next generation and two of the youngest generation. My folks are still hanging in there at 87 and 92. Whomever hosts our large clan often includes the other relatives (spouse’s side of the family), the unmarried brother may attend or not and may bring one or many guests or not.

I have a good relationship with H’s brother and nudge H to call him at least weekly or monthly (otherwise he falls off the radar). I am close to one SisIL but get along with the other ILs just don’t get together with them.

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Maybe there’s a very good reason they have that rule in place.