<p>I’m told they grow out of it but just now I find it hard to believe. I know I am supposed to be patient and tolerant, and I understand that their sullenness, selfishness, and rudeness are “normal”. But it is getting to me, and I am running low on motivation to care. What if it doesn’t change? Why invest all this psychic energy if all that happens is she grows up to be a sullen, selfish, rude adult? At least towards me? Given our present relationship its hard to imagine us ever being close, so maybe just write off the relationship now. Fortunately she is closer with her mom, and we have another daughter.</p>
<p>Hey, do I have a perfect match for her! :D</p>
<p>Call me odd, but in general, I find teens to be my favorite age. Most of the time, this also has been true about my feelings about my own kids.</p>
<p>Not sure what age teen you are dealing with right now, but I found the middle school years more difficult with the boys. Like NSM, I found the high school years to be the most fun and their friends the most fun to be with. That doesn’t mean we didn’t butt heads now and again! My D. was never confrontational, her MO was more like “whatever!”. I will say with all of mine, after that first semester or year of college, I saw I huge change in maturity level, awareness of others, financial responsibility and consideration of consequences. Hang in there! There is a wonderful person waiting to emerge!</p>
<p>My mom said I got nice again at about the age of 24. 
</p>
<p>My d is wonderful MOST of the time … but I notice her moods are dependent on the number of hours she sleeps. I only hope she’ll realize SOON that sleeping is a good thing. She’s a much nicer person when she gets at least 7 hours.</p>
<p>When they turn twenty. Alas! I have three more years in that cocoon of irritating-every-sane-person-around-me-land. </p>
<p>:(</p>
<p>DRB:</p>
<pre><code>I don’t have daughters, but I was one. You don’t say her age, but IMO it is a stage. I remember being rather a sullen, argumentative brat too at 14, 15 — and more so to my dad probably bec he was an easy-going guy; mom had an Irish temper I didn’t like to mess with. I remember my dad looking at me once, confused and hurt, and saying, “sometimes you look at me as though you hate me.” I didn’t, of course, and I was shocked that he finally called me on it instead of just shaking his head and walking away. I think it was just the normal adolescent, need-to-separate and disagree-with-everything-you-say thing. By 18 or 19, I was in love with my parents again. Much more appreciative of all they did and had done for me. If there’s no hidden reason for a behavior problem, such as drugs, I would keep telling yourself “it’s a phase” and count to 10 a lot. Or stay calm and just tell her she can disagree but she can’t be rude. You can ride this out and get close again; she will always be your daughter.
</code></pre>
<p>My son is 20, and he seems to have outgrown it.</p>
<p>“When do teenagers stop being obnoxious?”</p>
<p>When they turn 20, you can’t call them obnoxious teenagers any more.</p>
<p>They become obnoxious 20-year-olds.</p>
<p>More seriously, my kids have become mostly lovely people since they went to college and started taking care of themselves more; but every so often they do have those moments.</p>
<p>DRB,</p>
<p>I think some teenagers have problems with fathers because fathers are the ultimate authority figure. As they near college age, teens are eager to be out on their own but they are also apprehensive and they don’t like feeling so conflicted. It’s an out-of-control feeling that is at odds with the emerging independence they crave.</p>
<p>There isn’t really any cure for this except age and maturity but in the short term: Identify an aspect of your daughter’s life that she handles like an adult and compliment her for it. I’m not talking about PC self-esteem, I’m talking about a specific thing she does in an adult way: Does she drive well? Does she calender and keep her appointments without being reminded? Does she take care of her possessions?</p>
<p>The point is to find ways to expand your relationship with your daughter into a more adult relationship, but to do it in a gradual way. I analogize it to climbing upstairs. It’s impossible to go from the bottom step of a stairway to the top step in one leap. It’s easy to go upstairs if you take it one step at a time.</p>
<p>drb…her irritating behavior is most irritating precisely because 1) you suppose it may be a reflection of your parenting and 2) you suppose it may be an indicator of her adult personality.</p>
<p>I have some tips for you.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Try very hard not to take her behavior personally. </p></li>
<li><p>Her sullen, hormonal, high school behavior is almost certainly NOT an indicator of her future personality. Try to put that thought out of your mind. Was hse a delightful 10 year old? Barring disaster, she should return to that personality at age 20.</p></li>
<li><p>Focus on creating happy moments–special excursions which take her outside of herself and leave the troubles behind.</p></li>
<li><p>Find ways to give her more independence. Out of sight, out of mind is such a true statement and such a relief sometimes. Let her grapple with her turmoil at…camp…or Gramma’s house or somewhere else for a few weeks. Mine were always so much more appreciative and grown up after they returned from camp or trips abroad.</p></li>
<li><p>Pick your battles. Don’t get involved with her clothing or hairstyles or homework or any other little battles. Keep her safe, keep her more or less on the rails and provide a few highlights now and again. That’s it.</p></li>
<li><p>Commiserate with other parents. It really does help to know that other teens are equally obnoxious.</p></li>
<li><p>Buck up. I’m guessing the daughter you still adore is younger. She will get older. This may just be the test run…;)</p></li>
</ol>
<p>My daughter is 25, and although she still has those moments, she now apologizes for them after she’s had a chance to think about what she’s said.</p>
<p>Pretty helpful stuff so far, altho the other daughter is actually older. She is no angel but nothing like no.2 (age 15). That’s why this is a bit of a shock.</p>
<p>Dadguy: she’s all yours. How many goats do you want?</p>
<p>A psychologist friend of mine said, “Teenage boys make you want to kill them. Teenage girls make you want to kill yourself!”</p>
<p>Ditto on just gritting your teeth and trying not to say things you’ll regret. This will pass! Mine are 21 and 25 and worlds different from the days when no matter how saintly and patient I was I couldn’t please 'em. The 21-year-old can even tease me about the time when he was 13, we were walking out to the car, and I snapped. I grabbed him by the collar and (placed–my version; slammed–his version) him against the garage and said, “Knock it the f*** off!”</p>
<p>Ah, it’s the second child syndrome. It may not be true for everyone but our experience was that if you have a perfect first child, your second child will test the limits of your endurance. I extend my sympathies but look on the bright side: Now you’re really earning your parenting medals. (You did get yours, didn’t you?)</p>
<p>Remember, raising teens is supposed to be difficult. Totally agree with MomofWildChild’s friend.</p>
<p>Couple more thoughts.</p>
<p>Is it the family dynamic that Mom does the more enjoyable stuff such as shopping for clothes and you get to do the hard stuff like enforce curfews and shut the MySpace down? If so, talk it over with your wife about some reversal of roles even if you have to plot diabolically to pull it off. Let’s say D2 needs/wants something she would normally get through a trip with mom — I don’t know, those girl things like decorations for a notebook or shoes for a dance — tell mom to get scarce, take a powder, have an emergency come up. You become the one who “makes it happen” with a trip to the store, throw in a sit-down lunch, get some one-on-one without the rest of the family cast playing the usual roles. </p>
<p>You don’t mention if D1 is still in the house or away at college, but if she’s still home, it may be as DRJ says and a lot of this annoying behavior is about being the 2nd daughter getting attention. And just to put your mind at ease, I was a 2nd daugher, I was extremely obnoxious, and I am now a terrific adult.</p>
<p>Ooooohhh…I assumed it was the eldest child because I wouldn’t know anything about having a perfect eldest child. </p>
<p>You have one lovely child and you’re complaining? Stick your hand out for a cyber smack from a mom of two not-so-perfect boys. </p>
<p>Cyber laughs for fab jazz and MOWC.</p>
<p>Hey, Farawayplaces–that alpha-male-grabbing-younger-male-by-scruff-of-neck-and-giving-him-what-for is a GOOD and normal thing. My ever-so-patient husband had to do that once with each of his sons.
My older stepson was pretty nice at 15, horrible at 20, and is now so nice and polite and appreciative at 25–unbelievable progress. </p>
<p>drb–my D’s psychologist told me that most teenagers get much nicer about the time they are ready to leave for college. My D is almost 21 and is nice to us most of the time; not so nice when stressed or tired.</p>