@BrianBoiler So even initially you would have made enough working at the factory to cover part-time tuition for university classes or you figured loans and partial out of pocket? I’m estimating the nearest commuter university and it would be about $3.5K-4.5K per semester, plus rent and car (did your father end up charging you for those, too?). I’m trying to flesh out the “you’re not going back on our dime” conversation and how our son would likely proceed without our funding at today’s sticker price.
They did charge me. Two classes a semester at the time cost me about $700/semester. I paid on a cc and paid off the cc at the end of the semester. I didn’t have to buy food when I ate at home.
When I got married, my parents gave me my rent back. That was a surprise. My wife supported our household while I finished my first degree. I think I was married for the last three semesters.
I paid my auto expenses.
Unless your son learns what went wrong, there is the chance he will be unsuccessful regardless of where he attends college. The difference is…it won’t be as costly for you.
I think you need to help him figure out what is going wrong.
What kid of help did you give him in high school? Maybe he never really learned to manage his own studying because he had you as his safety net. He needs to become an independent learner.
I would vote for a leave if absence from his current school if his grades don’t Improve and if there are any D or F grades or course withdrawals. Give him until next year to get his act together. Get some counseling. Do one course at a time (if his college allows LOA kids to do that). He can build upon success. Right now, he doesn’t have that.
I would leave him be but be clear that you are only paying for the 4 years. Graduating even with a 2.0 is worth a lot. Sure, he is going to have a harder time finding a job. But it will still be easier than not having a degree. After his first job, it is unlikely that anyone will ask for his GPA. They will just see the name of the University. I know someone, that will remain anonymous, that graduated near the bottom of their class at a T50 school. That person now makes enough that they are a full pay family on one salary. I had a friend that had the mantra “D means done” for Spanish. That person had their salary disclosed in 10-K reports (>$1mm) before they retired early.
Q: What do you call the person that graduates a the bottom of their med school classe?
A: Doctor
As for the military suggestion, that 100% has to come from the person. Many people have a fantasy view of the military. It can change you, but not always for the better. It is like prison. Some get reformed, many become hardened criminals.
"I know someone, that will remain anonymous, that graduated near the bottom of their class at a T50 school. "
A few presidents of the USA would fit that description. 
I recommend neuropsych tests because would allow an inventory of strengths, not just weaknesses. Consider executive function coach. Kid may be tuning out parents subconsciously.
See the movie “Screenagers” - it has data on problems caused by too much screen time. His behavior seems similar to those students with ADD or weak executive functioning.
He could be immature, and just is afraid to risk disappointing his parents even more by trying new things and failing.
Consider a drug screen. Some jobs require.
Or he could be just lazy. There is that possibility, though CC parents never seem to consider it an option. It is, after all, more fun to play video games than do homework. If the results were the same, many would opt for fun over work.
@roycroftmom some prefer the term “efficient”
“Are you suggesting just accept the subpar grades, lies, low-effort and lack of forward-thinking?”
Though you have a lot of right on your side, (no lies, better effort,) you’re also setting a bar with this “forward thinking” part. (And the ‘must be a better summer job’ part.) Many kids can’t think far ahead, at this age.
Is he a soph? If he has a 2.0 and some D grades, does that mean he also has some B’s or an A in there?
I can see telling him he gets no D’s and aims for more B’s. But I wonder if being so sure what you want to see in personal growth isn’t part of what spun this mess. Sorry, but you went to lengths to get him through hs andinto college. He may not be the “ideal kid” right now. I do see a lot of anger.
No one can predict. He may not have the happy turnaround others did. Or as fast as others did. If you did helicopter him through hs, he may not have his own skill set. Yet.
I’m not trying to be harsh. I do think we all need some understandng, at times. It’s not as black/white as ‘do better or you’re out.’ I think some introspection often helps.
I actually know a fair number of college kids like this. The common factor, for them, is trust funds, which means they are neither required nor expected to be employed. In that case, the approach of gliding through college as a mostly social experience for a status credential is not unreasonable. If such is not the case for OP, it would be worthwhile to clarify expectations immediately for him.
Your son sounds like what I was for two years at a top 15 college long time ago, except I was receiving grants and financial aid that made my education nearly free. I even used some spending money my parents sent to gamble at Atlantic City and lost it all. I was very lazy academically and did not like my intended major. I was getting close to 2.0 also until I received a letter from college saying they would kick me out unless I brought up my gpa. I then switched to English Lit, and proceeded to get all As, with the same lazy work style. English Lit major fit me great because you just had to read and write creative papers while lying in bed.
After college, I saw how hard my parents were working, and I decided to change, cut my long, unkempt hair and work hard. 25 years later, I retired after having bought a nice house for my parents 15 years ago. I am now back to my lazy self. To be frank, I decided to make money to help my parents and after my then girlfriend’s family convinced her to drop me because I was a lazy bum, and that made me mad. So what I am saying is have him find a major he likes and tell him to develop at least one skill during college.
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This really boils down to your personal family’s decision and your parenting style. How do you parent? How have you dealt with these issues before? Are you reactive or proactive? Does you son have any idea you are considering any action or does he think it’s life as usual? Reading your posts makes me wonder the answers to more questions.
How did your ds handle college applications? Did he take ownership over scheduling his ACT/SAT tests? Did he research colleges on his own? Did he complete his college applications independently in the appropriate time frame? Or, did you as his parents have to ensure all of the above was completed with more than just asking questions and being supportive?
Our family’s parenting style seems very different bc if I had a child who was failing to take ownership over their future goals, they would have fallen flat prior to college bc they hadn’t taken the necessary steps independently to get there. Our kids also know that education is their path for achieving their goals, but that it also comes with a financial cost to our family. They take that financial responsibility seriously.
All that said, our kids wouldn’t have made it to 2nd semester. We would have removed our financial support at that school as soon as they hadn’t succeeded 1st semester. We would have assisted them in finding out how to transfer to the local U or CC. They would have the opportunity to demonstrate success there. If they did, more funding might become available. If not, they would be encouraged to find a trade or job.
But we live in a different we world than most posters on CC. The idea of funding a failing college student at an expensive away 4 yr school is unfathomable. (All our kids have been honors college students, so a 2.0 would be failing by our family’s definition.)
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None of us really know the dynamics of your relationship with your son so none of us can offer tailored advice. At best we are all telling you what we think we would do which might be very different to what we would actually do if we were faced with your situation. However, you did ask…
For what it’s worth, I expect my kids to screw up. I expect my kids to screw up repeatedly and every time they do I will do whatever it takes to get them another chance. That doesn’t mean they get a free pass. I had tough love parents. I screwed up. My life is great but it has been harder than it needed to be.
Be honest with your son. Tell him his phone indicates he’s not where he tells you he is when he says he’s studying. Have a frank discussion with him (that means listening and not just talking), ask him how he sees this panning out. What does he think happens after college? What are his hopes for his future, his career goals and does he really think they are going to be attainable if he continues doing what he’s doing? Tell him you’ve contemplated pulling the financial plug and that you may still do that if he doesn’t start to help himself. Listen to what he says. Tell him you want him to have fun in college but that he needs to find a balance between work and play. If he continues to get that as badly wrong as he appears to be doing the world will dictate the work/play ratio for him soon enough.
Whatever you decide, this isn’t just about money. It can potentially change your relationship with your child forever. Good luck.
My younger son had a 2.9 GPA in college and was on the Dean’s list both semesters senior year, however he did not have to repeat any courses and it was quite clear that the main issue was that his major required taking a foreign language - his grades improved after he had some immersion experiences. (One summer after freshman year, and his entire junior year).
This reminds me a lot of my older son’s best friend who did well in high school thanks to constant nagging from his parents. They found him jobs, they got people to say he’d done volunteer work that was pretty iffy, they helped with his essays. He fell apart in college (Princeton) a combination of anxiety and depression. They continued to support him, finding him jobs with friends every single summer. They even let him walk for graduation even though he hadn’t written his final thesis so he got a blank piece of paper. Five years later he’s living with his parents, drinking too much, in and out of therapy and still doesn’t have a job. I don’t know what the lesson here is, except that too much help really doesn’t work for many kids.
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Yep and this part is hard – my daughter has an LD too but even so she had to either take the bull by the horns herself or not. I couldn’t do it for her anymore and honestly trying to was making my relationship with her worse. Today it is still rough and she is still struggling.
BUT - the talk I had with her about college that day took the “he said she said” out of it and made it about the facts which was better.
Our middle son was the challenging one for us. We knew he wasn’t ready for college right after high school, so we told him to take a gap year to figure things out. It took him 2 1/2 gap years, actually, but wow, what a difference. I think some young people (especially boys) really benefit from delaying college.
In high school, we were on him constantly until we figured out it was counterproductive and we backed off. Once he got to college, he was motivated since he figured out what he wanted to do with his life (help refugees, Syrians in particular). Now he is taking a grad school level in expert Arabic. He’s made the Deans’ List all semesters but one. He knew we expected him to get decent grades if we were going to keep paying his tuition. We asked him to take care of living expenses.
He also knew that if he didn’t go to college, he wasn’t going to get any help from us. I think the clear expectations were very important. He knew he needed to get his act together.
He graduates in December from the American University of Beirut. He has no idea what’s next, but we’re looking forward to his next chapter. 
Here is the thing – it is his problem to deal with not yours. For my daughter I laid out the potential consequences. Also, once they turn 25 they no longer have to use your finances for aid, and like others have said most places do have decent reimbursement policies. Its a different experience for sure but not the end of the world (and I don’t mean that as lightly as it sounds – like I said, I have one of these kids that just could not seem to pull it together). BUT continuing to finance bullsh*** isn’t good for anyone. It made me pretty mad especially considering I had 2 younger girls coming to college age
Oh and for the record, being as she has an LD (my daughter) I would have let her stay with a 2.0 in all likelihood because school IS hard for her (executive function) but she was in an under 2.0 position and her scholarship was at risk and she lost her ability to be on the equestrian team too (ncaa eligibility) so it was really going down hill fast. I expect more from my two neurotypical girls.
Lots of good thinking here, but how and what to choose is going to depend on who you are and the family dynamics that got you here. You can want more, and you can want him to do more on his own, but at some point he is who he is until he decides to change. Removing some of the supports he’s accustomed to might be what it takes to get him moving, but he could collapse. We don’t know him so you’ll have to decide if it’s worth the risk. Regardless, until he stands up and gets on with his life he’s going to be the person he’'s always been. Some folks around here like to say “Love the kid on the couch” which is a way of acknowledging that maybe your dreams for DS are ahead of his development but he’s still the same guy.
From his perspective, try to identify what would make this time different from all the others? Your talk from before has always resulted in more assistance, so somehow it has to be communicated that you’re done. Are you? This is a fundamental question: from your perspective what has changed? Why is this time different? When you can answer that for yourself you’ll have the firm footing to talk to him with conviction.
I’d agree with folks above that it has to be immediate, gradual and firm to be something he can realistically respond to. Expecting a 3.2 by spring might be akin to demanding he fly, and he won’t engage. So an in-person visit as soon as possible laying out achievable goals for this year (eg No D or F. Improving GPA each semester until it reaches 3.0. ) and a solid warning what the consequences will be if he fails, and a real commitment to standing by this decision.
He’s proven he can do work with assistance, so the next step is doing it on his own. It’s not impossible, but he has to own that responsibility. Good luck.
As the original poster of “love the kid on the couch” (I think it was me…) I have to add- it’s not just the couch, it’s also the love.
OP-- surely there are multiple things to admire about your son. Start with those. I’ve hired B and C students before, and some of them have unusually well developed people skills and empathy. Is that him? Sometimes even D students are insightful about group dynamics and play leadership roles among people who are (theoretically) much “smarter” than they are- but have a tin ear when it comes to understanding how to motivate someone else, or would prefer to go it alone. Is that your son?
I think it’s a fantasy that someone who is majoring in video games and partying is going to turn into a 3.0 student in one or two semesters. But that doesn’t mean that he can’t find something that he loves- and that loves him back- which might turn around the endless feedback loop of “you aren’t living up to your potential, we need to find you a job because the one you found on your own is beneath you” type of narrative.
I’ve posted before about a boss I had way back one who had severe LD’s. I didn’t understand initially that when you handed him a report and he said “come into my office and walk me through it” it was because he read at about a third grade level- literally, he could not interpret information or data from the printed page. I also didn’t understand why he didn’t share an assistant when everyone else at his level did.
But eventually I figured it out- and he told me he had graduated from a college nobody had ever heard of, majoring in underwater basket weaving with a “barely passing” GPA, but had gotten an entry level job in employee relations/labor relations with a failing company which had a terrible and demoralized workforce. Enter the cheerleader (which he was- an actual guy who led cheers at football games).
Fast forward twenty years- he’s making a solid 7 figure salary, well out-earning the lawyers and dentists and CPA’s he’d gone to high school with. And he found a niche for himself. I remind myself about him whenever I get upset about something at work. It takes a team- the whole team- plus the people who carry injured players off the field and diagnose head injuries, the people who sell the tickets, and the people who lead the cheers to keep the fans engaged. Everyone thinks they can win the game by being the world’s best athlete- but it takes more than that.
Figure out what’s lovable about your son. Start there.
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Yes. You were engaging in magical thinking. Kids don’t automatically mature in the absence of an environment that encourages them to mature.
I’ve only read through page 2 of this thread so far, so apologies if this has already been said by someone else. You and your husband were/are “snowplow” parents, clearing the way to make things happen for your son and move his life forward. From what I have read here, he has no basis for an internal belief in himself, no basis to believe that he CAN make things happen for himself, make adult decisions, set goals, and move his life forward. Your actions have told him, “We do not have confidence that you are able to do this yourself, so we will have to ‘ride you hard’ and make things happen for you.” You have controlled his narrative. The way I see it, the slovenly appearance at his job was his way, albeit sub-conscious, of exerting control. You can “ride him hard” to get him into a T50 college, and your husband can get him a professional summer internship, but HE will be the decider when it comes to his appearance. It’s part passive-aggressive and part hanging on to whatever decision-making is within his reach.
At this point, he won’t magically change into a young adult with goals and a plan to reach them. He has no idea how to do that. My suggestion: Sit down with him or write him a letter. Tell him that you regret having cleared his path and denied him the opportunity to learn how to steer his own life and learn from his own mistakes. Tell him it is never too late – and certainly not too late for a 20-year-old. Then get . him into therapy.