When your child doesn't have your beliefs

Parent Cafe
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<p>I’m know this is off topic, but I really don’t know where the off topic forum of this site is, if it exists at all, so I’ll just take a chance. However, I know that we as parents going towards your child’s college years, maturing years often have things that are off topic to be discussed.</p>

<p>My husband and I have brought our children up in church since they were babies. They have always believed what we believe, the bible, God, and all and they have always enjoyed church. We never forced this on them, as it was just a part of our family. </p>

<p>Anyway, here comes my youngest daughter who is brilliant and is so gifted, especially in math and science. She is now 16. I’m sure she will become a scientist or the like. Two years ago, she started hinting around to me that she did not quite believe everything in the bible could possibly be true, she needed proof and those things were just impossible. Now you have to understand, I have always been in love with science, astronomy and everything having to do with that and in my early religious life, I had so many questions. But never really getting the answers, I resigned myself to faith which is the basis of our religion anyway. My personal belief is this: No, I don’t think all in the bible should be taken literally…and I really believe that God created us in a way that is not humanly understandable…yet. Therefore I believe in both…science and God. Why can’t both beliefs co-exist? She does not go for that. She also believes in evolution big time but many people here (including some teachers) do not. But I do.</p>

<p>Ironically, she still attends church, complete with Sunday School (though I have told her she does not have to go) and she honestly enjoys it. However, this is much to the discomfort of her Sunday School teacher and two students (her son is one) do not believe all in the Bible. Also, she LOVES to engage in conversation with Christians about their beliefs and loves to tell how she feels.</p>

<p>At first I was horrified of her feelings, but then I stopped myself short and realized she is an acutely intelligent young person and she has a scientific mind. She is searching within herself to form her own beliefs and thoughts. I respect her for this and have refrained from over-reacting.</p>

<p>I am intensely proud of my daughter…for many things…her intelligence and potential to become whoever she wants to be and make a huge contribution to this world, for her goodness as she is a truly good person. We are very close and I refuse to let this come between us, so I stand back and let her explore herself…and I let her talk, as much as she wants to about how she feels. She feels comfortable in doing this with me.</p>

<p>Have any of you out there had similar things happen with your children? Please give me your experiences, or if not just how you feel about this.</p>

<p>And if this does not belong here moderator, please move it to where it needs to go. If there’s nowhere to move it to, I understand if you have to delete it. And please folks, I don’t want this to turn into a war of religion…whether you believe in God or don’t believe in God or whatever…please.</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

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<p>Salem,</p>

<p>I sent you a PM.</p>

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<p>(don’t worry about your post being misplaced. Parents Cafe is the right place)</p>

<p>It sounds like you are being very supportive of your daughter’s efforts to find her own way in life, which is after all an essential part of growing up. I can understand that it might be uncomfortable for you that her searching is taking place within the church that your entire family belongs to. In a way, it might be easier for you if she rejected your family’s church entirely and simply stopped going. And that might eventually happen. But letting her go through the process of questioning that she is currently going through is probably the only path that leaves open the possibility of returning to your family’s faith at some point in the future. If you tried to force her to stifle her questions and hew the church line, she is much more likely to reject it entirely.</p>

<p>This is a little like when you child has a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship that you don’t approve of. If you are too heavy handed about trying to keep them apart, you’ll just drive them closer together. You just have to explain your reservations in a calm way, and hope that eventually your child will see the same issues you do.</p>

<p>Best of luck to your family. I know this is a painful process for you, but it sounds like something that your daughter is going to have to figure out for herself.</p>

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<p>And what 16 year old believes what their parents believe? It’s developmental. She may or may not come back to the beliefs she was raised in, and she can, and may, change her world view on a monthly basis.</p>

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<p>Bravo, Salem, you are taking the path of a faithful Christian and a wise and loving parent, bravo. Pray for her welfare and her continued growth and development - and love her.</p>

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<p>Remind her that Albert Einstein believed in his faith, but that did not stop him from trying to figure out what rules God used to created the universe and how He did so. As he said, “God does not play dice with the universe.”</p>

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<p>I agree with tsdad. My 18 yo DS was also brought up in church, now professes not to believe in “organized religion”, rolls his eyes, etc. This is what teens are supposed to do - they question, they are scornful of what parents believe, they claim they know better. He completed his Coming of Age as a sophomore and really hasn’t attended much church or church school since then. However, he remains a part of the church community - he acts as a tour guide at our church (which is a historic landmark), and responds to specific requests for help or favors from church members. I have not tried to force him to participate in the formal functions of the church in the last few years, but encourage him to maintain contact and friendships at church. This seems to work. I honestly believe he’ll come back to it in his own time, and when he does, there is a community that he is a part of.</p>

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<p>as a daughter myself, i think yours is lucky to have you. you’re not imposing your beliefs on her; you’re letting her figure out for herself what she believes and being loving and faithful which are exactly the christian values you want to espouse in her. i think you’re setting a great example, and even if her beliefs never truly match yours again, you’ll know that you raised someone who will do good by other people and who you are proud of. and what else could you wish for?</p>

<p>it could be so much worse.</p>

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<p>I think most of us have some kind of expectations about what kind of people our children will be.</p>

<p>It is indeed difficult at times to put aside these expectations and embrace our children for the very unique people they are – who may or may not share the interests and views of their parents.</p>

<p>Religion is all about belief, and Christianity especially acknowledges that we must choose to believe.</p>

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<p>Going through the same thing here Salem, 16 yr old D, good in science, and everything! I don’t consider myself super religious either, but I found myself saying that I expected her to go to church once a month, and kind of forcing the issue, --why, because spirituality is important, dammit! and then in a strange turn of events, she started to like going to Sunday school because they were debating evolution/creationism/intelligent design–we have people who take both sides in our church-- and now is going almost every week–more than me :). And one of my older sons surprised me by going to church in college after not going at all the last couple of years of high school. </p>

<p>Anyway, 16 year olds, GAAAAH. Issues seem to “polarize” very easily. Best not to push anything too hard with my own D, it does nothing but cause backlash. (Too bad I can’t follow my own advice at times. . .)</p>

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<p>

Ditto! Also, Salem, during one of my kids’ sacramental preparation programs (we are Roman Catholic) the nun brought up an interesting point. She said that it was quite common for people to fall away from their faith during their early twenties (and probably teenage years, too). I think it’s a time when the parental beliefs – somewhat imposed from birth! – have to become internalized. After all, unless faith comes from inside an individual it’s not really faith, is it? They then return to their traditional beliefs after a time, usually when they are raising their own families. I would do what you are doing (hopefully as well as you are!!!) and just pray that she finds her way.</p>

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<p>I was the prodigal son when I was 16, same as your D. I <em>think</em> I was polite and respectful about it and all, but I just developed different beliefs than my parents, for whom their religion was very important. I am very thankful that my parents, like you, didn’t freak out and try to force things on me – which is the last thing you want to do with a 16-year old. Respect her opinions (and insist that she respect those of others, even if she disagrees with them) – she will very much appreciate it. </p>

<p>But if you’re looking for assurance that this is just a phase and she’ll eventually come back, I’m afraid there are no guarantees. But your support and respect will make it much easier if and when she does come back to the church, as she won’t have to swallow her pride, etc.</p>

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<p>There are no guarantees, but I’ve been amazed at the number of my friends and family who suddenly “got religion” again, when they had children of their own. Didn’t happen to me, but it’s an interesting phenomenon. I’ve seen some really remarkable transformations, across multiple faiths.</p>

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<p>Salem,</p>

<p>I think a great deal depends on the room within a belief system, or religion per se, for personal growth and expression. Really, to a lesser degree, this is true of any belief: political, philosophical, even ethnic and nationalist identifications. </p>

<p>Anecdotally, it would seem that people of a fundamentalist/literalist faith or nationalist disposition will be the least likely to find the room, within their beliefs, to move about and explore how they and their world view will fit into their accumulated orthodoxies. Things are a bit cramped. </p>

<p>This is of course true by definition. It is the nature of literalism, fundamentalism and nationalism; you’re either in all the way, or not at all. This is painful, because life can become so spiritually traumatic when, instead of allowing the spirit to expand, it cracks and shatters from the pressure. The tub cracks and the baby spills out with the bathwater—I’ve seen it happen with so many of my friends (none of whom share my faith, FWIW). </p>

<p>My own faith is very much my own; my parents were always very open-minded. They wanted me to have a sense of life being more than this material (= materialist) world, that life is not so constrained by atoms, quarks and genetic codes and that the material and spiritual life are seamless in their oneness. But they never pushed any dogma on me. Because of this, I was able to allow the spiritual sense of my self to mingle with the wonderful world I live in, one explaining itself to the other. My belief expands, and contracts…like breathing…the useless leaves, to make room for the useful. </p>

<p>Whatever religion is, it is certainly an attempt to explain the otherness of life, the spirit that transcends the nuts, bolts and cash value of things. The question is always there; religion offers a method, or a language to communicate and wonder. Most any will suffice. There are, we say, as many paths to god as there are hearts. My parents always said: there are no bad teachers, just bad students. Amen.</p>

<p>Don’t worry, be happy; even Moses had his Pharaoh.</p>

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<p>salem, </p>

<p>I agree with the posters above who gave you pats on the back. It sounds to me like your daughter IS comfortable standing within her faith tradition and yet posing questions-- even if her Sunday School teacher, or others, are not so comfortable. Clearly, she feels that the two are compatable. I would support her in her questions and continue to model the love, faith, and acceptance of her that you feel. The ‘breathing room’ alluded to by Fountain Siren can be provided in large part by you, when you show her that her questions don’t rock your world, that your faith is comfortable with a probing, questioning mind.</p>

<p>It can work in reverse when a parent is not religious and a kid is more religious; that can be threatening to parents in a different way. In my case I have a confirmed athiest father; I worried he might belittle me because I married into a religion and have exposed my children to its traditions. Instead, unexpectedly, he was very supportive-- and I really appreciated that.</p>

<p>When my kids have religious questions I always try to answer them with a question-- why is that important to you, what do you think, how do you feel?-- to make sure I don’t tread on their still-forming beliefs. I don’t want anybody taking my POV whole-cloth from me, especially not my children.</p>

<p>Your daughter sounds like a great kid.</p>

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<p>Salem, my foster-mom is an Episcopalian priest. In her experience, many people “take a leave of absence” from organized religion in their teens and early 20’s but often return later, if not with the same unquestioning attitude or to the same denomination, particularly when they start thinking about getting married, or they have children, etc.</p>

<p>Our own experience, though, has been in a somewhat different direction. Our household is Roman Catholic and TheMom is a sacristan. But matters temporal sometimes triumphed due to pragmatism, e.g., though D was baptized, made First Communion, etc., she was never confirmed in the Church because confirmation classes invariably conflicted with her ballet schedule, to which much was sacrificed for years…without any regret. But D joined the Newman group at her college and was confirmed last Spring. The current rector of our home church, a man I deeply love and respect–and keep in my heart for his dicey health–very much approved of the path she took, saying that the decision she made as a free adult was stronger than one made under parental imposition as a young teen. Now, with “Nana” as her example, she has always been a shrewd observer: once, while walking to Mass, she said, “We believe in women priests but we can’t talk about it in church, right?” LOL…no, but it depends on who you’re speaking with, though I think the notion would be easily carried on a vote within our congregation, including private support by many if not all of the priests. Many of her friends at college, one where I suspect religious belief is lower than average, are non-believers but I was touched that several of them showed up to her surprise at her Confirmation in her support because it was important to <em>her</em>. My D is making her way through the world with her faith intact but eyes open; on some resumes she includes her EC work with the Newman group, on others she doesn’t. And she maintains both her faith and its practice despite being possibly more culturally liberal than I am, though I suspect that she may not be quite as heterodox in her theology…though I give her time on that one.</p>

<p>Not quite sure what prompted me to come out of the closet like this except that matters of my D and her faith, in the context of what she’s doing with her resumes, has been on my mind the past few days.</p>

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<p>I wish my mother’s attitude was that of yours, salem. I like it that you are allowing your daughter to form and keep her own opinions. My feeling is that you have fulfilled your obligation and if she chooses to continue with her faith, she will. I also think it’s okay if she questions things and doesn’t continue with her faith. Actually, I feel much the same as your daughter. I am considerably older than her, of course, but it still bothers my mother that DH, DD and I do not attend church or have any religious interests. I was raised in a Christian home and attended church every Sunday morning, Sunday night and Wednesday night. It didn’t matter if we wanted to go or not … we went. I attended a private Christian school for several years, so religion was pretty much shoved down my throat my entire life. When I went away to college, I felt like I could finally breathe and make my own decisions regarding church. I visited the Church of Christ with my roommate a couple of times, but wasn’t happy with that preacher’s opinion that Catholics and Baptists “don’t get their lessons from the Bible”. I then went to church with my sister and her boyfriend to an Assembly of God. I wasn’t prepared when the person behind me jumped up from her seat and began speaking in tongues. I soon realized that I really had no desire to go to church. At first, I worried whether or not I would go to hell, but I then concluded that hell had been preached about all my life, but I don’t necessarily believe in it. I felt a bit guilty when our daughter was young and would ask “Mommy, is that our church?” every time we passed a building with a steeple. DH, DD and I have never attended church together. I did take DD to church three or four times when she was young, but she didn’t particularly care for it, and I was only going out of a sense of obligation to her, so we didn’t go any more. DD attended Catholic school for several years … it was an academically accelerated school, but I didn’t mind that she got a little bit of “religion” while there. I guess the way I look at it is that my husband, daughter and myself lead very decent lives. We’re nice to people, we’re helpful, and we try to do the right thing. I personally don’t feel that religion or church is a necessary part of our lives. I do wish my mother would stop e-mailing me to ask if we’ve “found a church yet?”. I’m thinking if we haven’t found one in the 21 years that we’ve been married, it’s probably not gonna happen. Instead of driving the final stake through her heart by telling her I have no interest in church, I just ignore that question and address other things she wants to chat about.</p>

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<p>As an atheist teaching HS science, I have sometimes compared modern cosmological theory–the theory of what caused the Big Bang and what existed in the first tiny fraction of a second of the universe–to other creation stories. It seems to me there’s about as much evidence for any of them.</p>

<p>I do think it’s important to understand what kind of things science attempts to explain and what kind of things religions attempt to explain. I feel they are very different. Of course, that’s why “intelligent design” ideas make me crazy.</p>

<p>Oh, I want to add that I am a member of the Unitarian Church, a community I found very comforting after my son died (19 years ago). When my mother (another atheist) found out I was going to church on Sundays, she said “oh dear, we didn’t raise you like that” and sighed deeply.</p>

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<p>Both my Ds have gone through this, and in a way, it is refreshing. They are thinking for themselves, and wondering and questioning and learning.</p>

<p>My Ds have “embraced” humanisim, which has many aspects- religious humanist, secular, etc.</p>

<p>It put in a framework - morals, values, faith, that seemed to work for where they are at now in their “process”</p>

<p>It also showed them how to not get judgemental with others who have different faith systems- because at this age, they are so excited about arguing and debating, that sometimes they forget diplomacy (not like their very patient mommy), and to understand that even if they (my Ds) weren’t in the practice of their Dads anymore (Catholic), if they are good, moral, caring people with values, hearts, and respect for others, that is the most a mother or father could ask for</p>

<p>The freedom to explore and learn is what we hope for our children</p>

<p>My D goes to a parochial high school. She has always disagreed with some of how the biblical stories were presented and taught, but it seemed as long as she had a good basis for her thoughts, she was respectful, and she backed up what she was saying, the teachers respected her disagreements, if you understand what I am trying to say</p>

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<p>A little story:</p>

<p>After my second daughter was born, my neice (15 at the time) came out to visit and help and earn some money for three weeks.</p>

<p>One day she came home from going downtown and was all excited. She had met the best people. They had tea together, chatted, and she wanted to know if it was okay if she met them for dinner the next night.</p>

<p>I was thinking about it and was about to ask for more details, when she said, Oh, I am sure they are okay, here is their business card…</p>

<p>in black and white: Unification Church of Sun Yung Moon </p>

<p>I immediately locked her in her room, just kidding, but I thought, man what would I tell her Irish Catholic Family back home if I lost her to a cult…</p>

<p>We laugh about it now.</p>