And if a child used to enjoy school and within the past month or so doesn’t enjoy their work? Or what if a child who usually does their works starts to not do their work? Sure it could be procrastination or the pure dislike of school or it could be something else such as depression or a learning disability.
It doesn’t hurt to seek help when something goes amiss.
You wouldn’t ask a child with no legs to run faster. You would give them a wheel chair or prosthetics. Similarly a child with dysgraphia can benefit from using a computer and dyslexic children can benefit from listening to their books. And yes children with executive function disorders can benefit from learning study strategies, time management, and medication.
If you don’t identify the issue you can’t address it. I think telling a child with an LD to " just work harder" creates a needless spiral of disillusionment and depression. Why not empower them with knowledge about their strengths and weaknesses?
@CaliCash, please tone down your attitude. We’re talking about serious issues here; issues which, if not addressed, can have very serious, even deadly consequences. Believe me, I know of what I speak. My own kid would get so stressed over school, we’d end up in the emergency room with anxiety-caused digestive disorders. (And this was AFTER he was on meds and in therapy!) A co-worker’s “procrastinating, lazy son” killed himself two years ago because he could not face the daily struggle at school and feeling like a constant failure in his teachers’ and parents’ eyes.
You wouldn’t make fun of the parent who wants to have her too-slender daughter evaluated for an eating disorder. You wouldn’t make fun of the parent who wants to have her son’s vision tested when he complains of headaches. Don’t make fun of the parent who wants to check if there are psychological or physiological reasons for their child’s school performance.
It’s very wrong headed. And just not cool.
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But your daughter doesn’t need medical attention for a high SAT and low GPA. Your daughter is this thing us common folk like to call HUMAN.
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No one here is qualified to say that she DOES or DOES not have an issue that should be treated. that is for the experts to determine.
And, no one her is qualified to say that if she does have an issue, should that issue be treated with Rx or not. That is for the experts to determine.
According to the mom (and it appears according to some of her teachers), the DD is exhibiting some signs that she MAY have an issue. It is wise to error on the side of caution. If the experts say, “no issues here,” then hurray. If they say differently, then… Either way, the parent is acting responsibly.
I hope you are blessed with problem-free children - for your children’s sake.
Second, kids with executive function disorder aren’t treated with medication. Not even all children diagnosed with ADD are medicated. Maybe medication will help someone with ADD but you, a 17,18 year old child, aren’t qualified to diagnose or make that decision.The students are taught tools and skills to deal with these issues. Neither of my children were ever medicated for having executive function disorder or dyslexia. There is no magic pill that suddenly organizes a child or fixes their reading/spelling issues. The goal of an evaluation is not to prescribe medication but to figure what is the best way the child learns and provide that education.
btw, the evaluator does ask the student about their attitude toward their school, teacher and classmates.
If you are going to rant, at least be a tad knowledgeable.
Bingo.
I’m rolling my eyes at this. IIRC CaliCash is a student and probably doesn’t know any better, so this is for the OP: Tried the “be responsible” approach for years with D2. Teacher conferences. Counseling. Tutoring. Logical consequences (if you don’t get the school work done, you won’t be able to go do other fun things). Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. There was not a trick in the book we did not try. Finally took D2 in for educational testing. Bingo–quantifiable diagnoses of her “mental defects”. Knowing the diagnoses allowed her to go through an enormous amount of work and counseling and partnership with teachers in order to address her LD issues. Yes, there was, and is, a limited amount of medication. She doesn’t like it, and only uses it when she feels it’s absolutely necessary.
She’s now in college, a rising sophomore. Working hard (much harder than in high school), doing reasonably well in her courses, excited about what she’s learning, taking part in ECs. Beyond grateful that we did the testing and could respond to the diagnosis when she was still under our roof.
D2 has also benefitted by being at a LAC (Pitzer) where the student body is incredibly supportive of each other and quite open about their respective frailties. Her classmates talk about being homesick, or when the work feels overwhelming, or if they’re struggling to get used to monitoring their own deadlines or keeping up with class reading. And there are plenty of students who have various LDs and/or psychological issues–that gets talked about, too. The end result is that many (if not most) students are less stressed because they know that everyone else is stressed. A school where most students are like ducks–serene on the surface, paddling like mad below the waterline–would’ve been a disaster for D2. Of course, your child may be different, and respond better to swimming with the ducks.
CaliCash is a student? No wonder. Ah, the sweetness of youth and innocence and ignorance!
@CaliCash will have no clue about the anxiety that parents can go through about their children until she faces parenthood herself. This is why this is a Parents Forum thread. It is for parents , who have faced these kinds of issues, to discuss. We were lucky, in that our younger kid, who did underachieve in high school, did turn it around in college. He did well in certain subjects in HS, had great EC’s and leadership skills, friends, etc. so I was hopeful he would be okay but there was still anxiety about his future. He was fine once he got to college but if he had shown signs of depression, anxiety, extreme disorganization in HS, I would have had him evaluated. He was just a bright slacker (in terms of academics in general, but very organized in terms of sports and subjects he liked). Some kids just do need to mature more and will do okay with little or no intervention, but some kids will need more help. As someone earlier on said, parents can many times sense the difference.
Please calm down. I think the discussion of the tread is a little bit off target.
First, it seems that there is a combination of every thing mentioned here. It is difficult and un-constructive to make judgements based on assumptions. We will have her tested, I mean MULTIPLE TESTS, to determine whether she needs special helps. This thing can get serious over time if unaddressed. It never hurt to figure out, right? So let’s close the discussion of this ADHD thing for now.
Second, D is complacent deep in her heart. Part of the reason she does not like to talk about colleges is she knows we are going to “put her down by being too realistic.” Knowing that she won’t easily let go (prestigious universities), it is our responsibility to make sure that she applies for a sufficient number of colleges that fit her profile. Our message to her is that she needs to apply to the list first and after that she can apply anywhere if she are willing to do the extra work. This is why Chicago and Columbia came into the conversation without considering admission odds.
While I am typing this message, my wife is going to her school to talk to the counselor about her senior courses. Well, it seems that part of the problem is her school. Since the junior year, the school has allowed and many times encouraged her to take difficult courses with older cohorts. Therefore, she have taken only a few courses with her class in the last three years. Now the problems: 1) the school will submit class rank without considering course difficulties; and 2) she has to take a couple of easy courses (e.g., social study) in senior year in order to graduate (D has assumed that those requirements be waived for her).
It’s very hard for someone who does not have ADHD to understand the mind of someone who has ADHD.
I had ADHD hyperactive type as a child (did not medicate.) My DS has ADHD inattentive type. My DH, who does not have ADHD, does not understand why out DS cannot just make himself more motivated and pull himself up by his bootstraps. But I can understand it because I have been there.
It’s like telling someone with nearsightedness to just keep squinting harder to see clearly in focus.
Calicash, please don’t project your biological brain status onto the whole world. There are all sorts of ways that people’s brains work. Thank goodness yours works well for you.
To op,
Columbia and uchicago will be far, far reaches. Pull the lottery ticket and see what happens.
“Please calm down. I think the discussion of the thread is a little bit off target.”
What is your main concern, question, then?
When I saw the OP’s child’s GPA and test scores, I immediately thought of my S16. However, when I started seeing references to executive dysfunction I thought of our S18. He’s been having huge problems getting projects done, and he’s in a program that requires a lot of organizational skills. I’m going to do some research and also see what his therapist thinks. OP, I hope everything works out well for your daughter.
@OP: your concern #2 is a non concern. It’s ok to take a couple of easier courses in senior year. There’s a good reason - to fulfill the diploma requirements. It happens all the time in many schools. If anything, if she’s capable of taking hard courses and it’s feasible for her to take them earlier, all the better so these classes can show up in her transcript to demonstrate her capacities to colleges. If her lower GPA was because of the rigor of the classes she’s been taking, make sure they are fully addressed in her counselor recommendation. Regardless, colleges do usually look at transcripts closely and the rigor of the courses she took will be a plus factor. That said, her chances to the most selective colleges are still slim. They do expect you to take the hard courses AND do well.
Yes, There are so many kids out there that
“take the hard courses AND do well.” Plus have great EC’s on top of that, etc. Very selective schools are unlikely to be options unless your child has a major hook .
I don’t know how “selective” is defined here, but - as I stated in a previous thread - my son had a similar unweighted GPA, with only a 2060 SAT (OP’s D had a 2300+) and he got into Pitzer (15% acceptance rate) and Tulane (20-25%). He was waitlisted at Reed, which seems like an ideal college for the OP’s daughter.
“Now the problems: 1) the school will submit class rank without considering course difficulties; and 2) she has to take a couple of easy courses (e.g., social study) in senior year in order to graduate (D has assumed that those requirements be waived for her).”
OP, all valid concerns.
With regard to 1, ad coms understand the nuances of a transcript. They will see right away that she was taking difficult courses, and will factor that in.
As to number 2, each high school sends a school profile sheet to the college along with the transcript. This sheet details the course requirements for graduation. So the ad coms will see that she was required to take these courses.
The prestige issue is far more difficult. It would be helpful if she could understand that “prestige” is different from name recognition. She may never heard of Belmont U in Nashville (located, literally, in Vanderbilt’s shadow) but it is very prestigious for music industry studies. Ithaca College is prestigious for musical theater. Alfred University in NY is prestigious for ceramic studies.
It can be a challenge getting students excited about schools outside the elites, especially when their friends and peers are all talking Ivies 24/7. But many excellent students thrive at these colleges, and some end up having more opportunities than they would have had among the competition at Columbia or Chicago.
“Do parents need to be diagnosed with a disorder when they wait until the last minute to pay their bills?”
Maybe. I know a person diagnosed with ADD at the age of 50. The diagnosis improved his life immeasurably, and helped his wife to understand why he was functioning at a level below what she thought he was capable of. Knowing what they were dealing with enabled them to choose between options (therapy, medication, etc.) and begin addressing the problem.
@Calicash Taking a break from reading your posts for a while because life is just too short to be accused of “throwing garbage,” etc. I’ll check back in around December and see if your first semester at NU has resulted in more appropriate, respectful responses.
^^ lol
"Do parents need to be diagnosed with a disorder when they wait until the last minute to pay their bills?"
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Actually, in some cases, procrastination can be a symptom as well. However, simply waiting till the last minute to pay (but meeting the deadline) has no negative repercussions. There are adults who frequently are LATE making payments, resulting in credit issues, late payment charges, etc…and that can also be a symptom.
People with ADHD and/or EFD often are chronically late, have trouble managing money, are impulsive, allow other activities (like video games) to interfere with “necessary activities” (like homework, going to a job, getting to places on time, etc)
The parent who started this thread said that her D had late assignments which negatively affected her grades. That is NOT waiting till the last minute…that is MISSING the deadline…and getting a lower grade as a result. I would guess that the D is spending too much time on “something else”…maybe texting friends, looking at Facebook, or maybe even spending too much time (perfectionism) on some other assignment.
One symptom that there is something more serious going on is when behaviors are interfering with daily life. If a person is often late and therefore is often losing his/her job, then that interferes with their life.
Everybody has flaws…nearly everybody procrastinates occasionally. When a flaw is so chronic that it interferes with life, then professional help should be sought.
Sleeping all the time and late assignments begs evaluation by a doctor. What is “all the time”? Teenagers can need up to 10 hours of sleep per day, but more than that is concerning, especially on a daily basis.
Handing in assignments late all the time is another warning sign - sure, maybe she is bored, but is she forgetting to do the assignment or hand it in? Is she being reminded or does she just “get to it” on her own time?
Sometimes setting very high “the smartest kid at the school” expectations backfires.