Feedback from school counselor:
Interesting that her counselor encourages her to aim high. At our school (a highly ranked Northeastern independent school), the counselors seem to be about aiming low or realistically so as to manage expectations. I have a friend whose sonâs SAT score is 2390 but is an underachiever in terms of GPA and his college counselor pretty much told him that Ivies and similarly ranked schools were out of the question. But if she is willing to apply to a wide range of schools for RD then I guess aiming high for ED is understandable.
Lanshen: No harm in aiming high with ED and then having the backups for RD. Like every kid, she needs to find a couple of safeties that she would be happy to attend. And needs to understand that the ED schools are unlikely but you never know. One of my sonâs friends got in ED to an elite school with a GPA that did not meet typical standards. This kid had no athletic or URM hooks but did spend a year as an exchange student.
I am with those that think it canât hurt to get her evaluated, but be careful about jumping to a diagnosis. If she really has ADD, it should be apparent in ways other than not turning in homework or not getting top grades. It would be not getting things done, even when she wants to because she just canât focus enough. I could see the difference between my kids that were slackerish and the one with real ADD.
With ADD, the diagnosis is based on symptoms. Some kids (one of my sonâs friend for example) may be diagnosed as late as high school. But it is somewhat easy to âgameâ the questionnaires and obtain a diagnosis. The answer may be counseling but more often it is medication. If that works for your kid, great. But it is less effective on the inattentive form of ADD than the hyperactive form. The side effects for some kids can be very unpleasant. But for others it can be life changing in a good way. Other kids, once they know the diagnosis, can make the modifications needed to overcome the challenge.
It sounds like your daughterâs GPA is the result of her taking courses above her grade level. The GCâs explanation should help a lot. But the adage is true - love thy safety. Good luck!!
OP, Several years ago I knew of a student with almost the exact stats as your daughter. She was also an artist, Asian American, and applied to art programs with a portfolio included with the application. She was accepted to both USC and Carnegie Mellon and chose CM. I havenât kept in touch with the family so canât provide an update, but the portfolio is definitely a game changer with low GPA.
Plenty of kids with lowish GPA and high SAT do fine in college, where more content is organized online and grades are more dependent on mid-terms and finals instead of the mind numbing barrage of homework that high schools use to boost grades for âtrying hardâ. People often assume a LAC is going to be the best place for such kids, but large research universities offer a rich culture of graduate students and post docs that can enrich the experience for precocious undergraduates.
âNo harm in aiming high with ED.â
I agree with this to a certain extent, so long as the school options are well-researched to make maximum use of this opportunity. But given this studentâs propensity for last minute, I would be concerned that she would submit her ED app, and sit on all the others until the deadlines approach.
Perhaps the GC could strongly encourage the student to complete and submit her âmatchâ apps before the GC sends off the elite ED app. If the studentâs first semester senior year grades show substantial improvement, those should be sent in as a supplement (if the GC doesnât already do that as a matter of course).
Is she working with a full time college counselor from her school? I would trust the counselor in this situation in particular when they donât seem to be trying to make their work easier by encouraging her to âaim lowâ. There is some info eg historic data and school relationships only the counselor has access to and can help make the decision more effectively than anyone from outside. Good luck!
Itâs OK to aim high⊠as long as the student also aims for âsafetiesâ and âmatches.â Good luck, @LANSHEN, but I have a feeling your daughter will do well.
OP - I have 2 kids with ADD/ADHD. Both diagnosed late and both are gifted. The thing is that there are usually signs that kids have it. For example can your DD sit down and focus do her homework? When my one son was in 9th grade I couldnât understand why he wasnât getting his homework done. Then I made him try and do it down stairs⊠He couldnât sit still and could only do a problem or two and then he would have to get up walk around. It would literally take hours to do his math home work. Also he completely missed things that his teachers were saying in class because he couldnât focus. In earlier grades he was able to get by. What Iâm trying to say is that have your DD checked out but note unless she has been showing signs of not focusing and missing important information in class and not being able to sit down and do homework in a reasonable amount of time it may not be ADD. Also while my kids take ADD drugs I would not have them take them if I thought they could do it without them. Itâs a very slippery slope because there is no way to know what the long term sides effects of the drugs are⊠Iâm Hoping in your daughters case itâs not ADD/ADHD and its just that she is bored or doesnât feel like doing the work on time.
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He couldnât sit still and could only do a problem or two and then he would have to get up walk around. It would literally take hours to do his math home work.
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this is what confuses many. The same kid may be able to âhyper-focusâ on something they really likeâŠmaybe a video game or TV show or hobby or sportâŠand be able to sit/focus on that without pause or breaksâŠso the family thinksâŠâoh, heâs just lazy and only wants to play video games instead of homework.â Some solve that âsirensâ songâ by removing the controls until weekends or whatever.
My H (and most of his family) has ADHD. He has the hyper/inattentive combo, while other family members may have one or the other. H LOVED school, so his hyper-focus was on reading/learning everything he could in class. He also loves sports and the entertainment (movies, TV, music) industry so he is a total trivia nut about those things. However, once heâs in hyper-focus mode, it can be nearly impossible to pull him away from something. He doesnât care if his dinner is cold, he canât pull himself away to eat it while itâs still hot.
4 years ago I applied as an aid-seeking internationalâwhich I mention because the process was more competitive for me than for a domestic student with a similar profileâwith a 3.3 UW GPA and 2350 on the SAT and I was accepted to Reed, whence I just graduated, and waitlisted at UChicago.
I would recommend both of those schools to the OPâs daughter. Sheâd need to do her research and really show sheâs the right person for Reed and/or UChicago, but I think theyâd make sense as reaches for her.
Iâd also recommend womenâs colleges like Mount Holyoke, Smith, Wellesley, Bryn Mawr, and Barnard.
Other LACs where she might have a chance are Colorado College, Kenyon, Sarah Lawrence, Bard, Whitman, etc.
Just some ideas.
Reed is an excellent suggestion. A respected, selective LAC for âintelligent but quirkyâ kids who tend to march to the beat of their own particular drum. I know some really accomplished young people who found themselves at Reed.
I think OPâs D would have an excellent chance at Whitman, since my S got in (with a modest Merit Scholarship) with similar GPA and much lower SAT score.
I have not read this entire thread, but your D sounds like mine. I had a couple of threads about it a couple of years ago. Super smart, high-IQ, high test scores kid, had always been in gifted and talented until high school when she really faltered. In her case (glad its not the case for your D) this led to a spiral of deep depression⊠but when the diagnosis of ADHD and executive function issues was finally made, it was a life-saver for my D. She then stopped beating herself up for being âstupidâ and learned the tips and techniques she needed to engage in the boring schoolwork, double-check her math, etc.
However, that wasnât until the end of junior year, so her transcript was similar to your Dâs. She did find that the small LACs, and womenâs colleges in particular, were far more willing to look at the whole picture rather than just the numbers. She was accepted at Mount Holyoke (her first choice), Bard College, Hampshire, and waitlisted at Wellesley. She did not get into Smith and Skidmore.
here are some threads with our story in case this may be helpful. Feel free to PM me if you want any more info!
This thread was not started by me but it contains our story beginning around post # 57
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1147645-smart-daughter-with-no-motivation-p4.html
Also wanted to add that, like your D, my daughter could write and discuss complex theories at a very high level. In fact the most important criteria for her in choosing a college was that she feel surrounded by intellectually engaged peers with whom she could have these kinds of discussions. I do believe that this quality came through to the interviewers at the small LACs and womenâs colleges. I suspect the same will be true for your D.
As far as her not being able to succeed in college, I definitely recommend the testing now. In our case, an executive function/ADHD coach was very useful in helping my D come up with organizational techniques that actually worked for her. For example she had never been able to use a planner properly, but with the coach she was able to find one whose layout more closely matched her own natural thinking patterns and she was able to learn to use it. For some students apps work better⊠but it dies take some time and motivation on the studentâs behalf to find the system that works.
My D reports that college (while more difficult) is easier for her to do work for, since it is engaging and not boring like high school. She did get lulled into a false sense of security after doing very well her first semester, and stopped using her planner and keeping up with her assignments⊠she was horrified by her grades second semester and is determined to put her organization techniques back into place in the fall⊠fingers crossed.
I think this thread shifted away from the OPâs initial inquiry, regarding the types of colleges her daughter could get into. I hope that the OP is encouraged by testimonial and anecdotal evidence that, regardless of evaluations and assessments, this girl can almost certainly expect to be admitted to an excellent college as long as she applies realistically.
Our son is also a low GPA high SAT/ACT kid. Kids and teachers agree he is very smart. Raw intelligent. What he refused to do is manage his GPA. He did his work for the love of it. If itâs boring he would not bother. He scored high in math and science. History, English and Foreign language brought his GPA down. We were so frustrated all his middle and high school years. He is a senior at a very competitive high school and we have come to this conclusion.
He is a good kid, we are going let him study what he like, which is math and science. Although he is capable of competing with any ivy league kid in math/science, he is not going to get in with his GPA. We have come to the realization and we told him that too. But he is going to ED to his favorite ivy.
He is wired differently. He wonât memorize stuff which he will forget in three days, but can get him a high score. But will work on something he is passionate about for hours which might give him just 5 points. A lot of great scientists have these traits. We canât do anything about it, except to accept him as he is.
Many parents say these kids will do well at college, if they get into the right one.
Sleeping all the time may be due to her frustration. She knows she is good and others are scoring higher than her, and she doesnât want to do what others are doing. Also, she is feeling bad about what she is putting her parents through. Just support her, and find out what she want to study. A flexible LAC would be great. An art supplement and living in China are going to be a plus for her. let her show her passion through her essay. Some one I know got into Duke with similar experience. Good luck.
@lanshen I was doing some random searching and encountered this slightly old thread. Can you give an update? Where has your D decided to apply?
UChicago is worth a shot â two of my high scoring SAT, lowish grades kids applied â one was waitlisted and ended up going there. The other got in, but didnât go. It seems to be getting more and more selective, so who knows, but they have always had a reputation in the past for taking some diamonds in the rough types.
Otherwise what about Brandeis? Or Barnard? Brandeis (one of my daughters graduated from there recently) seemed to have a lot of kids that would have fit in well at UChicago. Barnard seemed to have an artsy, smart vibe to me when my daughter visited (I tagged along). Plus, Columbia is across the street, and kids at Barnard can take some classes at Columbia. In fact the day my daughter visited Columbia, she recognized a girl (from her high school) that was going to Barnard but taking the class at Columbia that my daughter happened to sit in on.
Oops â didnât pay attention to the dates â Iâm sure the list has been made by now, and the application process is in full swing. I would love to know how it is going, and wish the OPâs daughter all the best!
Great post.
@CaliCash, nobody is saying that OPâs daughter has a âmental defectâ or even that anything is wrong. She may simply be unchallenged or lazy. However, there is a possibility that there might be something else going on and Iâm not sure why you would oppose the OP investigating to make sure there is not an issue. My son suffers from ADHD of the inattentional kind. When he moved to a new elementary school, he had his teachers and the reading specialist convinced that he couldnât read. He would pretend not to be able to read because it was more comfortable for him. He was also diagnosed with dysgraphia because his handwriting was so atrocious that it was illegible and he was using a dictaphone to write papers. My husband and I resisted treating him for ADHD because he was already on medication for another diagnosis and we didnât want to add to the mix. It was clear that there was a problem because we knew that he could read, he just couldnât stand reading. It made him feel physically uncomfortable. Once he started medication, it was like night and day. His handwriting changed overnight. Now, as a high school student, he understands the benefit of his medication. Iâm sure he could do well on the SAT without medication because adrenaline might carry him through the day, but to sustain concentration to study, complete boring homework assignments, read texts, does require medication. I know that he wouldnât be the honors student he is today without treatment.