<p>Interesting. I’m a proud feminist, and I dislike the hookup culture. I see no contradiction there.</p>
<p>I agree with poetdaughter that sex is not the same for young men and young women. I dislike that young women and especially some young girls get pressured into sexual situations they don’t like, clearly consensual actions that IMO the young girls would have been better off and happier not to consent to. </p>
<p>Pressuring into “consent” is by definition not consent. </p>
<p>Clearly some posters here associate a lot of baggage with the term “feminism.” I understand why women in the past had to be so strident in their fight for equal rights. And I am frankly astonished by some of the public discourse on issues affecting women (“legitimate rape,” the Sandra Fluke flap, etc.). It’s 2014, not 1850.</p>
<p>I don’t agree that sex is the same for young men and young women, either. I think we are biologically wired differently, partly because we women are stuck (not that I don’t love my kids!) with raising kids that result, and men aren’t if they don’t choose to be. And I don’t think feminism says there is no difference. What it says is that there shouldn’t be a double standard in how men and women are treated for the same sexual choices. Men shouldn’t be treated as if “boys will be boys” or as if they are more “manly”, and women as if they are sluts for the same behavior.</p>
<p>I’m talking about peer pressure, social pressure. I think that girls are faced with peer pressure to have sex, peer pressure that comes from both genders. And in some situations, particularly for young teenagers, I think they’d be better off resisting it. And older girls and young women are subject to social pressure to participate in the hookup culture, and succumbing to that pressure, in my view, does not always serve them well.</p>
<p>I guess hook up culture is feminist. I don’t know. Don’t ask me. You could have knocked me over with a feather when she told me she’d been told that. It is what it is. But it’s why she rejects the label of feminist. </p>
<p>"“Can you list specific political, social, and economic areas where you would like your daughter to be treated as lesser than her male counterparts? I sure can’t think of any for my daughters…”
When you have to resort to building straw men and misrepresenting others’ positions, you have generally lost an argument.</p>
<p>I can’t see what is “straw man” or misrepresenting anything to ask what part of the definition of feminism you don’t support for your daughter. I genuinely want to know what part of that definition of feminism you don’t agree with."</p>
<p>That isn’t what you asked in the post that I quoted. You asked where I would like my daughters to be treated as lesser. See the difference? Not even remotely similar. One was a “genuine” and open question. The other was dishonest and judgmental.</p>
<p>I don’t see how hook up culture is feminist. Tangentially, it may be an eventual outgrowth of the sexual revolution and free availability of birth control. But would she rather go back to the days when birth control was not legal or readily available? Men have been pressuring women to have sex as long as there have been humans… at least now it is harder for them to just take what they want, thanks to the feminist movement.</p>
<p>Intparent (and others), I have the greatest respect for feminists and other women who have fought for important things. I honor and respect you as an individual and a unique, precious
person. I support and understand your reasons for defining yourself as a feminist. My choice to reject that label for myself is not a reflection on you in any way. It doesn’t represent disdain for you or rejection of your values. It is about me, and I am different from you. Why can’t you equally respect that there are women who view themselves differently than you do? My rejection of a label that you embrace doesn’t diminish you or the accomplishments of any women at any point in history in any way.</p>
<p>Slightly off topic: </p>
<p>If anyone is interested in either gender or labor history, I’m reading a good book called From Marriage to the Market: The Transformation of Women’s Lives and Work by Susan Thistle. It’s pretty short and a good summary of the last 200-ish years of domestic labor by women (divided by race and class). </p>
<p>I’m
Not sure that’s true. That it’s harder for them to take what they want. </p>
<p>And, that’s not what I said she said. I said she would never vote for someone against women’s rights. She is pro choice in the first trimester. And she comforted a lot of young women who regretted sexual choices they made with their heart early in college. </p>
<p>What that has to do with the availability of birth control I do not even know. </p>
<p>Not sure how you can stand on the shoulders of those women in today’s society, and still reject the ideas they stand for. Again… what part of economic, political, and social equality of women are you opposing? I get it for younger women who may be ignorant of history and current events, and blithely assume it can’t happen to them and it isn’t important that it is still happening in many areas of the world. I don’t get it for women who have been around longer.</p>
<p>There’s a weird connotation/denotation thing going on here with people saying they aren’t feminists. It’s like:</p>
<p>Person: “I’m not a vegetarian! Vegetarians are strident people who go around scolding other people.”</p>
<p>Other person: “Yeah, but you don’t eat meat. That’s the definition of vegetarian.”</p>
<p>You are really having trouble with this. That is very sad. Read what I am writing, not what you are translating me to mean. </p>
<p>I do not reject the ideas that feminists of any era stand or stood for. I didn’t say that. I reject the label feminist for myself. That is a very different thing. The fact that you truly can’t comprehend that or accept the words of another woman about herself is very telling, and is a part of the reason why I reject the label. I am also deeply offended by the use of the word ignorant. I think that, also, is very telling. For some people, feminism is very closed -minded, judgmental, disrespectful and hateful. </p>
<p>"
What that has to do with the availability of birth control I do not even know."
It doesn’t. It is another example of dishonestly spinning something was said into something outrageous that wasn’t said. The question is whether it represents a true belief that anyone who is different must be as evil as the worst bogeyman in her imagination.</p>
<p>Cardinal fang, I never defined feminism, so your little vignette doesn’t apply to me. And you know what, I don’t have to. It isn’t your or anyone else’s business. But I wonder about people who do define themselves as feminists but absolutely can’t bring themselves to find a modicum of tolerance for other viewpoints. I tolerate and embrace other viewpoints and I am not a feminist. </p>
<p>We need feminism! The basic definition is that both men and women should have equal rights and opportunities 
My entire family is feminist.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>But you are not the sole owner of the English language. Words have meanings. </p>
<p>That’s fine.</p>
<p>That’s not really what I am talking about in the earlier post. </p>
<p>"For some people, feminism is very closed -minded, judgmental, disrespectful and hateful.</p>
<p>Why would that stop a femimist from being a feminist?</p>
<p>I see feminism as the fight for equal opportunity and so I proudly am a feminist. I think when people fight for equal rights some others see them as overly strident and inpatient. Not willing to let the change come slowly.</p>
<p>It is something I could never understand this attitude of let change come slowly. If you are the oppressed group you should agitate for the right to equal opportunity and to hell with anyone you offend.</p>
<p>I have seen this with equal rights for minorities, women and homosexuals. To people who say be patient understand the other side I say place yourself in the oppressed groups shoes.</p>