I don’t think its always a matter of privates being seen as better than publics. At least in NY, the publics are very well regarded. But there are some programs, majors, facilities etc. that are available at the privates that are not at the publics. Where we disagree, is with idea that the education is necessarily “not as good.” I think it depends completely on the program AND on the kid. I agree with the advice not to raid the retirement, but I feel that way about ALL the privates. There needs to be a darn good reason to go into debt if you don’t absolutely have to.
Yes. it depends on the program and the kid, but what about the frequent mention that kids can change majors? For most, college offers a much larger array of fields. And blossom was recently talking about kids for whom college isn’t going to suddenly make them catch academic fire.
I think the disagreement may be over kids in the middle, kids who could be empowered by a level of colleges. Maybe, maybe not. But that ground is vast, lots of good choices. It isn’t just media rank, alum donations, the outcomes of other kids or even the strength of a dept or two that makes a college empowering.
As on campus recruiting dies (if it does) there will be less impact.
Please keep in mind that kids with weaker stats are not necessarily disengaged slackers. Some kids are late bloomers who get off to a rocky start in early high school years. Some kids have weaker GPA’s precisely because they are challenging themselves and bite off more than they can chew – they sign up for classes that are tougher than they can handle, or they are so engaged in EC’s or sports or community activities or paid employment that they fall off track on some of their school assignments. Some kids have medical or family problems that cause make for a rough semester or year. Some kids have learning differences – dyslexia, dyscalculia, ADHD, Aspergers – that may make things a lot harder for them – and those kids in particular might be the ones who also need a supportive college environment. And some of those non-prestige but expensive private colleges are precisely the ones that have reputations for being more supportive.
I don’t want to hijack this thread – but I do feel that it is important to stop stereotyping-- and keep in mind that at least for some families, the reason that they may not have resources on hand to pay for college may be do to expenses along the way related to either supporting the things their kids were engaged in (like money for music lessons) – or due to dealing witht the family and life problems – or for paying for private educational or therapeutic services for the kid with learning differences.
My brother wasn’t college material at 18. Got lousy grades at what was, at the time, the local junior college. My mother had succeess at a 4-year in mind, he was thinking California. They found one. He did catch fire. But some of these memories that influence us go way back. At the time, I think that college (now quite desirable in the region) was maybe 2k/year.
My kids did not take advantage of on campus recruiters. They did use the career center for resume help, etc. I think the center itself is often the more valuable resource, especially if they work to post job listings. But you can get this good support at a wide range of colleges. Depends.
I’m not stereotyping.
But surely it is permissible to point out that there are some kids who have low GPA’s NOT because of learning differences or a medical issue or because they challenge themselves to a greater extent than other kids or have non-neuro-typical issues… but just because they don’t work hard or care about school?
Am I the only person on CC who knows kids who are lazy? Or who prioritize their garage band over school work, or their BF over studying?
Not stereotyping, but also not prepared to conclude that every kid who gets weak grades in HS is a baby Einstein ready to break free. One of my kids close friends in HS was a B-/C+ student. Lovely kid. Kind, honest, fun, courteous, just a decent human being in every possible way.
SAT scores came out and his parents hit the roof. Why? They were thrilled with B’s and C’s because they thought that’s what he was capable of. His SAT scores showed that with no prep and no effort he was in the 98% or somewhere thereabouts (with no effort) and they were nuclear.
Same kid as yesterday when he was the love-able goofball.
Truth be told, the prestige begins and ends at “Harvard.” Everyplace else garners the reaction of “nice” or “good for you.” Yes, even Yale, even Oxford, even Stanford etc. etc. The only place on the planet where if a local gets into it they celebrate with fireworks in remote villages in China is “Harvard.” The world really only has one brand-name university, folks, and that university is “Harvard.” There is no “list.” Or, if there is, it is a list of one name only. You know this, too, but the non-Harvards of the world want to actually have a conversation about it! Pshaw!
No,… but pretty much all the kids I know like that ended up at the local community college or CSU’s.
I don’t doubt that there are some overprotective, helicoptering parents willing to spend a lot of dollars on kids who lack motivation and underperformed in high school… but I’ve never met any. Maybe is because of cultural differences between California & New York … the CC-> UC route is common enough that no one really looks down on it.
The more common lazy-kid thing I’ve seen over the years is the kid who is 25 years old & still living at home, unemployed or underemployed & attending community college on a sporadic basis. Housing costs out here make things worse – it sometimes doesn’t make sense financially to oust the kid.
How did the 25 year old kid get to be at that point without being self-supporting? I get the housing costs factor- but not having finished the AA by 25 is worrisome.
This! This is true for many kids with and without diagnosable learning differences. The world isn’t split into self motivated high achievers and lazy slackers. There is a whole world of kids in the middle who might very well be able to do well with the right environment. Posters on CC talk so much about the importance of FIT, I don’t see why it should be any different for kids who are not top ranked.
@Blossom For the few kids who are really just lazy and uninterested, I don’t think SUNY or community college or anything else is the answer. For them, life is the answer. Let a kid like that take a year or two to try to support himself without parental support. Its much harder to be lazy in an eat what you kill world. Then see how eager that kid is to try to make something better of himself.
Agree in principle… but many less selective private schools are financially stressed ones that may not be able to offer the enhancements that wealthy elite private schools offer. Indeed, some can be the opposite – remember Mount Saint Mary’s University of the “bunnies” infamy?
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/01/20/furor-mount-st-marys-over-presidents-alleged-plan-cull-students
So a parent considering spending more than the in-state public cost for a B/B-/C+ student going to college may need to be more careful about college selection rather than assuming that any private school will necessarily offer an enhanced experience (relative to an in-state public school) that will help the student succeed.
@Blossom – because the kids aren’t attending community college full time either --they are just kind of drifting along… I think it can be more difficult to work toward a degree when commuting because it does take a certain level of discipline to get to classes on time and follow through on assignments when not living on campus. And obviously I’m talking about kids who aren’t so good at follow-through. And in defense of the parents, even though the young adults aren’t accomplishing much externally, it’s quite possible that some are helpful around the home – so there may be other reasons that the parents don’t want to kick the kid out.
But I don’t mean to hijack this thread to debate those parenting practices either. I’m just a parent who never has actually run into college prestige-seekers outside of CC – I live in a working class neighborhood, sent my kids to public schools. Most kids do go to the CC’s or CSU’s. Some do get into elites - a neighbor’s kid went to Stanford as an athletic recruit – but there’s no competition and I’m just as likely to hear that kids who are headed off to private colleges are going to small off-the-grid regional colleges as anything with name value.
@ucbalumnus I never heard that story! Sounds like that is one Dean who could use a little bit of self censorship. I really know nothing about the school or its services. But you make a good point. I wouldn’t assume that a school is a good fit just because its private or because its small. You need to do the research to verify that the school actually has what your child needs. But again, that isn’t much different from what you would do with a higher ranked school. There are people who assume they are going to get a great education at an IVY without realizing how focused on graduate students that school might be, without realizing how many kids are in a class, how many are actually taught by TA’s, how little support there is. I’m not trying to argue against any specific school, but trust, but verify works at every level.
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1854265-are-at-risk-students-bunnies-to-be-drowned.html is a thread on these forums about the Mount Saint Mary’s University “bunnies” story.
I’m pretty new here at CC, but makennacomptom is essentially a ■■■■■,(word I cannot use) correct? based on some other threads I saw of hers bashing Princeton?
“Truth be told, the prestige begins and ends at “Harvard.” Everyplace else garners the reaction of “nice” or “good for you.” Yes, even Yale, even Oxford, even Stanford etc. etc. The only place on the planet where if a local gets into it they celebrate with fireworks in remote villages in China is “Harvard.” The world really only has one brand-name university, folks, and that university is “Harvard.” There is no “list.” Or, if there is, it is a list of one name only. You know this, too, but the non-Harvards of the world want to actually have a conversation about it! Pshaw!”
Not sure if this was just meant as funny flamebait or not, but I for one am every bit as wowed by a kid who goes to Princeton, Stanford, Yale, MIT, Caltech. Every bit. No difference.
…
Okay, maybe a tiny bit less for Yale 
I think I am most wowed by the MIT and Caltech kids. Mostly because I’m intimidated by math. 
I am most wowed by kids who turn down HYPSM and go to a lesser ranked but still nice merit money school including Honors Colleges.
What is an HC?
Honors Colleges. Lol