Hello everyone. I am new to this forum and would like to ask you to help me help my DD16 with her college search. Both my husband and I got our degrees outside of US, so we are not familiar with the process. DD is a fairly good student with only 2 Bs for her entire HS career. She is a rising senior now. She will be graduating with 15 AP classes. She has 3.98 UW GPA and 4.6 WGPA. She ranked 4/235 class as of now. Her school is very competitive. Her SAT score is 2300 (780CR, 750M and 770E). She took SAT only one time. She also took ACT her freshmen year and score 32. She will not be reporting it for the schools that do not ask for all tests. She also scored 800 on SAT Math2 (she took it twice, 720 first time). She plans to take 2 more subject tests in October. PSAT 223 in California (possible NM)
Here are her EC:
Summer research at one of the top recearch programs, not RSI though (will be entering her project into completions),
US Patent pending,
Competitive gymnast for 9 year. Competed in Junior Olympics 4 times. Retired from sport this year due to an injury.
USC Mission Engineering
Various leadership things: president of 2 clubs, officer of NHS, Acadeca, Speech and Debate. Semifinalist for our state board of Education student member position, HOBY, etc.
Has been holding part time job for internet company for 1.5 years now (15 hours per week). 42 volunteer hours.
She wants to major in computer science/ engineering and double major in business administration. Or maybe she will do undergraduate in CS /engineering and grad in business. Her first choice university is Stanford. We know this is a huge reach for everyone. So she needs to decide now where to apply EA: Caltech or Stanford. She likes both schools, but she thinks that Stanford will be a better fit for her since it encourage entrepreneurial skills. From what I researched I think she has better chances applying earlier to Caltech since Stanford does not really give any advantages to its EA applicants without hooks. It would be interesting to hear your opinion on the subject.
Other schools she plans to apply are USC, UCLA, UCB, Calpoly SLO, UCSD, Harvey Mudd and few more.
Thank you so much and I am sorry it is so long.
I think she should think carefully which she prefers and apply there for EA. Those colleges are very different cultures. I am not into analyzing advantages etc of EA over preference.
Also she should look at an engineering student sample schedule. There would be no room for double majoring without additional years. For CS that would be possible maybe.
I think she should add more UC’s, last year was a pretty tough year from what I read.
Thank you @BrownParent
It is difficult to get a filling of the campus culture just by visiting, but she said without any doubt that Stanford is her first choice. But this is Stanford. 95% of highly qualified candidates will get rejected. She will be applying to Stanford EA or RD. I just don’t know if I should advise her to use slight advantage she might have applying EA to Caltech. Caltech is extremely hard to get too, but for us it might be more financially doable since it might be a commuter school for her starting her second year (they require all freshman stay on campus).
@mom2collegekids I am afraid it is unrealistic dream. She doesn’t have any hooks and also any special talents.
I don’t know about majoring, but if she were at a place like Carnegie Mellon, CS students are required to have a minor and they have a respected business school, however it sounds like she is set on staying in CA, and that’s okay.
I am not a fan of SCEA especially if there is more than one other school that has EA, or is Caltech the only option? Does she like Caltech? Has she spent any time there? Both my boys (even the non-techy one), loved it, but it is definitely not for everyone. There’s not a huge difference at either college in the EA acceptance rate, so if Stanford is her clear first choice, I’d just go with it and not overthink it.
@mathmom she wants to stay in CA. The only conflict with EA she might have is between those schools. She will be applying early to USC for the scholarship , but this is different. The rest of the schools on her list are RD.
To be honest with you, it is me sort of pushing her to applying early to Caltech. As small as this EA advantage at Caltech might be I don’t want her to start her application process with rejection by Christmas.
Mom2mom, your daughter is applying to college, and will be attending…not you. If her preference is Stanford, then don’t push Caltech.
To be honest, she is a strong student, and her chances EA or RD are not all that different.
Let her choose.
I’d let her apply early to Stanford if I were you. Caltech is so small - great for Grad school- [DS is there getting his PhD after going to USC on a full tuition scholarship] but he would have gone to Stanford for UG if he had gotten in.
Not getting in is hard, but not as much if she really knows its a total crapshoot these days.
Be SURE she lets USC “feel the love”- she needs to visit, interview there and let them know in her essays why she would LOVE to go there. Just applying early is not enough.
She NEEDS to get her math score on the SAT to 800 to have a good chance at Caltech. [ thats what they want to see, trust me] So she should take the SAT again. With another year of math under her belt I’m sure that will be easy.
My son didn’t get into Caltech - he made careless mistakes every time he took the SAT and got a 760. He had an 800 on Math2 subject test and was taking Linear Algebra, so it wasn’t as though he wasn’t good at math. My husband was a grad student at Caltech (in biophysics) and think it’s just too small and insular at the undergrad level. It’s a beautiful campus - I worked in one of the libraries there for a while and loved it, and loved Pasadena.
This is hard, as Stanford has restrictive EA. Caltech is non-restrictive. I haven’t looked up Harvey Mudd to see the status of the EAs.
My son was rejected from Stanford and admitted to Caltech. I don’t know if that was due to his essays. He applied as a junior, and had one weekend to get Stanford application in. He had 2 weeks to do his other applications. It could also be that my son was seen as a better fit by the tech schools.
It is still a guessing game where son would have had the best UG experience. As small as the Caltech UG size is, it was the first time son was with other kids who liked science/CS. He also liked the House system. He pursued several ECs at a leadership level not possible in HS.
Last year my son took a course at Stanford, and liked the area too.
Such different schools! D SCEA’d at Stanford because she didn’t want to be surrounded entirely by STEM majors for these 4 years of her life - the opportunity to meet and interact with high performers in other fields of interest was important to her, especially considering that a future career in STEM meant that she wouldn’t necessarily be interacting as much with people in the other fields after college. She also had reservations about the proportion of grad students to undergrads at Caltech: It changes the vibe of the campus when graduate student dominate campus life. On the other hand, the big sports scene at Stanford was a turn-off. The other consideration is the extent of the ‘intrusion’ or ‘integration’ (depends on your perspective) of Silicon Valley culture into campus culture is a positive or negative. So, as always, it gets down to fit…
I’d say even if there is a minor advantage to EA at Caltech, if your D feels like Stanford is a better fit, she ought to apply there so she has no regrets. Her profile is such that she’ll get in somewhere terrific (including perhaps Caltech RD) even if she doesn’t apply EA.
Now that I think about it, it is only EA. I know plenty of students with her stats and even URM status that got rejected outright in EA at Stanford. So yes, perhaps EA at Caltech is the way to go. Not binding, no big deal if she picks another school instead. The more important part of this is what does she have beside the reaches.
@BrownParent this is what I was thinking about. Stanford is definitely a better fit for her, but … it is Stanford. I don’t buy lottery tickets that is why I do not have much of the hope for Stanford. What I was trying to determine If not-hooked applicant get at least slight advantage applying REA. One way or another she will be applying to both schools. Just need to know where to use this almost nonexistent advantage.
She will have some safeties and matches: UCLA, USC,UCB,UCSB,UCD,CalPoly SLO,San Jose State,
@N’s Mom I sure hope so
@bookworm did your son apply early to one of those schools?
@mathmom Pasadena is 30 minutes away from us. If she gets in and leave at home we can save on housing.
@menloparkmom if she gets to Stanford and full scholarship to USC I personally would choose a full scholarship at USC. I am sure she would have a different opinion.
^^well, DS got accepted at 2 Ivys+Chicago, Wash U, Ponoma, and some others I am forgetting now, but chose USC in part for the $$, in part because he realized he also wanted to stay in Calif instead of suffer cold winters a lomng way from home, and in part because USC had top profs in his intended major who received their PhD;s at Caltech- where he was ultimately aiming for grad school.
Trustee Scholars at USC are treated like gold.
He just told me the other day that he would defend USC against anyone and would challenge them to prove that they could get a better education elsewhere than he got at USC.
I was surprised and very gratified!
Your DD may change her mind if she gets into USC and wins a big scholarship, especially if $$ is important to future plans- hers or yours.
The question comes up if you have need as defined by the schools, and if you are able/willing to meet EFC.
Also her school may have data about how the top handful have done with Stanford admissions in the past few years. At my daughter’s school the girl’s Val every year went to Stanford. Not that other kids didn’t too but it was funny they took the val every year. (Although it wouldn’t have been named at admissions time presumably it was know she was top few.)
Brown parent has a point, because Stanford defers only about 10% of EA applicants, but either accepts them - 10% chance or rejects them- 80% chance.
IF she decides to apply SCEA to Stanford be SURE she has ALL her other applications completed and ready to send before mid Dec.
NOTHING is harder than having to write essays for other colleges when your heart is broken.
It made DS Xmas vacation a truly miserable one- one I would not wish anyone else to have to suffer through.
And IF she wants to apply EA to Caltech she needs to take the SAT again to get her Math score up to 800.
We are middle class two incomes family. We will be full pay at any school. That is why I would take full scholarship at USC over any Ivy.
@menloparkmom i don’t think she was planning to retake her SAT. She had only one mistake and the curve was harsh. She has 800 on SAT Math2. Isn’t it good enough?
nope,not for Caltech.
a neighbor kid 2 years ago who applied to CT EA and was deferred, was specifically told by someone in Caltech admissions to get his SAT math score to 800 in order to be even considered.
He did and ended up still being rejected.
Students at CT HAVE to take REALLY intense proof-based math and physics classes right from Day 1.
The ones who are not really able to handle the “drinking water from a fire hose” pace of learning at Caltech dont do well.
So I guess admissions has learned that 800 math SAT scores correlate well with students who do well at CT.