Where to go now?

Parents Forum
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<p>This is probably going to be longest post ever, so consider yourself forewarned.</p>

<p>Well, at the start of admissions season, I posted in parents cafe about a culture clash between my Indian parents and me, their Indian-American son. Here’s that thread: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=134441[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=134441&lt;/a&gt;. The prevailing advice was to apply to colleges that were heavy on the merit aid.</p>

<p>Well, I followed that advice, and my parents decided to loosen up. Not materially, as in I still can’t date, and won’t be allowed to do so in college either, as far as they are concerned. But I’m allowed to hang out with my friends more and things like that. There’s a lot less tension in my house these days, so my plans have changed somewhat. All this has made it very hard to make a decision. Should I assume I can keep my parents placated and distant for four years, or should I go with the money, as planned earlier. Due to my admissions success, going with the money would definitely involve alienating the parents, who are hardly open to me going anywhere that isn’t part of the Ivy League. Anyway, here are the options under consideration: </p>

<p>Penn, specifically the Wharton School’s Vagelos Program in Life Sciences and Management: This program is essentially, How to be a Drug Industry CEO 101. I like biochem, and I like biz/econ, but I don’t know if I want to commit to studying a heavily science and management curriculum for four years. I’d be graduating with a marketable, if highly specialized, degree. Of course, my parents want me to get an MBA, so if I submatriculate into Wharton Grad after my third year, then I’d be facing 5 years of business school. If I went back a few years later, that’d be six years total. This choice involves giving up on the possibility of taking random esoteric courses or really exploring my diverse interests in college. I liked this option when I applied, but now that it’s in my lap, I don’t know so much. The positives are that’s it a school at which I’m comfortable, the connections are tremendous, it’s one of the nation’s best business programs, and I would be part of the inaugural Vagelos class, meaning I’d be part of a very small group of people graduating in 2010 from this program. A job would, assuming decent performance on my part, be a near guarantee.</p>

<p>Chicago: Definitely a very different school from Penn. Intellectually speaking, it might actually be my best fit. I like it’s Core and the Big Problems curriculum for upperclassmen. One of the nation’s best econ departments, of course. I can do a double major in economics and biochemistry, and still enjoy the opportunity to explore more. I’m also interested in evolutionary psychology and art history, among other things, so I really value the opportunity to explore. However, it costs as much as Penn, and I don’t qualift for aid anywhere. I’m very uninformed as to how much of a difference in getting a job choosing between these two options would make. Socially, it should not be a problem. I’ve heard lots about how the people are slightly off, and that it’s a very nerdy school, but the applicants I know and the people I’ve met on visits have allayed any fears I might have on that count. I think it comes down to the fact that I like Chicago’s classes vs. Penn’s dorms. Since classes are much more important, Chicago wins that round. I guess I need to know how much difference this would make in the job market. In addition, I need some input from people who know Chicago as to whether the “life of the mind” lives up to billing or is just more promotional material.</p>

<p>Stanford: Probably the closest to Chicago in course selections. It’s the only other particularly intellectual school I applied to. Intellectual as opposed to smart. However, I just was not that attracted to it when I visited. But visits, especially during the summer, are misleading, since it wasn’t really in full swing. This would be a strong second option for my parents, especially my dad, who, since he lives in San Jose, adores Stanford. It would also have the added advantage for my family of not having to keep up two houses while also paying for college. However, my parents have showed me their finances, and these expenses are manageable, according to them. In fact, I had to fight to apply to financial safeties, because to them, the money wasn’t even a factor.</p>

<p>Yale: Good social fit, but not a particularly strong econ department, so I can’t think of any compelling reason to go here. I applied more so I would hopefully have a strong school of good social fit, in case some sort of unforeseen disaster occurred with my other applications. It was, in a sense, a reach safety, if that makes any sense.</p>

<p>Princeton: Strong in econ, offers certificates in finance. I’m decently attracted to the place. Certainly not in love with it as I am with Penn and Chicago. It’s also a place I could more easily persuade my parents to let me go. Also, this decision revolves around me deciding where my career lies. If I think it lies in the drug industry, I should go to Penn. But see, I have not even decided if I like economics or business. Yes, they are related, but in business, my forte is finance, not management or entrepreneurship, both of which are in greater emphasis in Vagelos than finance. Also, I’m a bit of a policy wonk at heart, so the opportunity to study at the Woodrow Wilson School at Princeton appeals to me.</p>

<p>Duke: Great school, strong in the sciences. My friends there say the orgo courses will be more than sufficient challenge for me. It’s also a good fit for me, in terms of people. Really, I’m very versatile, where people are concerned. Only in two places have I felt that I do not fit in. Unfortunately, in the absence of money, still no compelling reason to attend.</p>

<p>USC: Full tuition. Good option for escaping my parents and attending a strong business school. Definitely a very different courseload from a place like Chicago though, so the same drawbacks mentioned for Wharton apply to USC’s Marshall.</p>

<p>Vandy: Full tuition+2000. A very good social fit. I’ve been in the south for nearly 8 years, and many of my friends are in fact Southern conservatives, even though I’m very liberal. The fact that I’m far from a wild child means that I get along very well with the devout Christians who have a strong presence on campus. Being part of that group would also check any impulse I have to really get into partying or anything else.</p>

<p>UGA: Full ride+3000 a year, coddled for four years and given anything I wanted. But the education, while strong, would not be Ivy League or Chicago strong. Definitely the ultimate escape option. They would also convert my 30K in outside scholarships to cash.</p>

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<p>MM - looks like you’ve already narrowed it to Chicago, Vandy, Stanford & Princeton or am i reading you wrong… if true, you should visit, try a couple of classes, spend the nite! All great choices; you can’t go wrong…</p>

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<p>You are so thorough in your own analysis, I doubt anyone can add much to it.</p>

<p>I am not sure that you are right in your assessment of Stanford being “intellectual”. It is not at all like UChicago in that respect. But Stanford is pretty committed to “liberal arts education”, so you will be able (and required) to take classes in variety of disciplines, and will be able to get a great education. If you decide on Stanford, and are looking for intellectualism, consider doing SLE your freshman year.</p>

<p>In your particular situation your father living is San Jose is not really an advantage though. I would think you’d prefer to be further away ;)…</p>

<p>It sounds like Vandy would be a good fit (though less prestige then many of your other options…), and will give you the independence you deserve and need at this stage of your life.</p>

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<p>Great analysis. You might want to discuss with your parents the notion that the typical “Ivy League/CEO” track usually involves a few years of work experience prior to going back for the MBA. I understand that Penn is different - it has a different marriage of a “large state schooloid” business major and an Ivy League liberal arts based education - but I think your concerns about the narrowness of the “Drug Industry CEO in the Making” major, might be justified. Although, of all industrial choices, health care/pharm is probably one of the safest. </p>

<p>In terms of developing independence, teens often underestimate the power of just being out of the house. After all, you have a new ready made excuse to speak them at another time, one that is almost unassailable - “Dad, I’ve got a paper due tomorrow” - you’ll be a soph before they figure out no one could possibly have that many papers ;).
Seriously, I know there is a lot of talk and concern about parents of different cultures, but the fact that they are beginning to give you space is important, and the process will accelerate once you are out of the house - even a few hours distance can be true separation when you have more control of the opportunities for interacting with your parents. Kids can establish independence without moving to another time zone, it is more about attitude than physical location.</p>

<p>YOu have some great choices, and you are on the way to a thoughtful decision.</p>

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<p>Just want to mention that there was a kid (Evilrobot) who posted here 2 years ago who was accepted to his dream school, Yale – but the financial aid was lacking, and after much angst he chose Vandy and their scholarship offer. He has since come back to report that he is very happy with Vandy.</p>

<p>His decision was determined by economics – his parents simply were not able to help out that much with his college costs and he would have had to work or borrow on his own to make up the difference – so it may be a little different for you. But the point is: Vandy is a good school and probably in the end offers an equally strong education.</p>

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<p>Hey, mm - phenomenal choices! I remember the original thread well, and I’m happy that your parents have backed off a bit, and that you did so spectacularly well with your applications. Would your parents be all right with you choosing Chicago? It seems to be the one you love most, considering your re-evaluation of the Penn program.</p>

<p>My daughter is extremely happy at Vandy. She’s very smart but just on the cusp of intellectual (if at all - depends what we’re talking about), and characterizes her friends as being the same way. You seem exceptionally well-balanced. I think you’ll grow marvelously well, wherever you’re planted.</p>

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<p>Go with your gut. If you want to take esoteric courses or even just get a truly intergrated liberal arts understanding, you’ll know it because of your apprehension to commit to running to a career path without letting yourself explore. You’ve been accepted to incredible schools, but it’s your decision who you’ll “grace” with your presence, so to speak. It’s really about where you see yourself growing, maturing, and being excited to learn over the next four years. You’ll know. Which school’s acceptance letter have you re-read, if any? What website gets the most of your time? Have you highlighted the course catalogs (I know I have!) to design potential curriculum tracks…or just to dream about them? Maybe you have other ways of seeing where your heart lies…but you sound like you’ll make your decision with the right priorities in the back of your mind.</p>

<p>Who knows, I may see you at Chicago!</p>

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<p>One more thing: Various friends of my parents, and even my school principal, all seem to have one default line: “Chicago is a really strong school, but having the Wharton name on your diploma opens more doors.”</p>

<p>Any input on that?</p>

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<p>first, congrats on your success … what terrific choices you have!</p>

<p>Wharton vs Chicago … either of those schools will carry a ton of wieght with any recruiter or adcom in your future … among Chicago, Penn, Stanford, Prineton, Yale, and Duke pick the school YOU like the most, make the most of the opportunity while you’re there, and you’ll have terrific opportunities at the other end (I’m not picking on USC, Vandy, or UGA but you seem more intrested in the other schools).</p>

<p>5-Yr MBA … I suggest looking at the web sites for the top 5-10 b-schools … they will all recommend 3-5 years of work experience before starting B-school.</p>

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<p>Mmm, my parents seem to think telling me that I should go to Wharton because it’ll get me into a cushy corner office sooner is a good idea. Maybe so, but going on to say that I like my creature comforts too much to go take esoteric courses at Chicago was not a good idea.</p>

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<p>Let go of what your parents think YOU want…as for the cushy job, its a strange world…and there are no guarantees from any school…</p>

<p>And what do you mean by alienating them? Do you really think they would not ever talk to you again if you didn’t go to “their school”? </p>

<p>What you need to do is take your parents wants, needs, desires, your wanting to get away from them out of the decision making process.</p>

<p>Look at the schools for the schools, not in relationship to parents</p>

<p>for instnace, you talk about USC getting away from parents…take that out of the equation, would USC still be of interest to you…</p>

<p>By the way, a “job would be a near guarnatee” do not assume anything like that…there are no guarantees in the job world…</p>

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<p>You sure have some incredible options! I am a little disappointed to hear that the Wharton program does not allow for more flexibility. One of the big selling points we got at a Penn admissions program was how all the students from the different schools were encouraged to take classes across programs. Examples were given of Wharton students taking classes in the engineering school and even the nursing school. I can see how the Vagelos program, already being interdisciplinary, might not leave much room for electives. There will probably be many highly focused students in that program, so if your heart isn’t truly in it you would be at a disadvantage… but what a great opportunity!!</p>

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<p>Sooo, yeah, went up to Penn over the weekend for the Monday Penn Previews. Notes: The students were friendly, with the exception of a couple of Huntsmans who blew me off. One, in particular, talked to me at length, and told me that the professors were deliberately vague in explanations sometimes to make the class harder. Also, he said there was very very little emphasis on writing and communication, which bothered him, so he, a normal Wharton guy, was doing an English minor. Also, I picked up a copy of Running of the Bulls by Nicole Ridgway. If the book is credible, then I really don’t want to go to there anymore. I’d appreciate feedback from anyone else who’s read the book. Also, the director of Vagelos pooh-poohed philosophy and literature and such as “soft” subjects in which he was uninterested, which really bothered me, because if the school is so renowned for interdisciplinary study and flexibility, then what’s with the attitude. As the man who oversees me for the next four years, his attitude does not seem to bode well.</p>

<p>Also, my mom told me I had responsibilities to the family, yadda yadda, and that if I didn’t go to Wharton, then it was USC, because she doesn’t like Chicago’s theoretical bent, etc. etc. Yes, citygirlsmom, I know I should ignore everyone else’s likes/dislikes, etc., but I sort of need the 40 grand a year my parents have, so I’m really not in a good position there. And actually, yes, my parents very well might not talk to me if I go elsewhere. As it is, they think I’m basically immoral and impure, now I’m not even promising to be incredibly successful. (Read incredibly successful as “Wharton grad”).</p>

<p>Right now, unless I can convince them Chicago is good for more than just learning random things, it looks like UGA for me.</p>

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<p>Maybe you should look into Vandi option again. You will be independent financially, and that will give you some flexibility.</p>

<p>If the name is so important wouldn’t your parents be willing to “settle” for Stanford or Princeton? Both will “open doors” name-wise. You really deserve to have the educational opportunities YOU want.</p>

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<p>Actually, I wouldn’t really be independent at Vandy. Vandy absorbs my own scholarship money, so I would have to borrow about 10K each year for room and board. At USC and UGA, though, I would be independent.</p>

<p>Stanford and Princeton…they’re A.B. degrees in econ…same problem my parents have with U of C.</p>

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<p>Do you have any relatives or family friends that could talk to your parents? This is just so silly…</p>

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<p>Come to Princeton. :)</p>

<p>Seriously, though, the idea that a degree from Wharton is automatically better for “getting that cushy corner office” than either Princeton or Stanford (or U. Chicago, even) is unjustified.</p>

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<p>I agree with nngmm. </p>

<p>Shake the tree, find some nice fat-cat CEO, preferably a Chicago grad, who can tell them to chill.</p>

<p>I will only add that the reports I get about USC do not depict it as an intellecutal place. Much more “OC.”</p>

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<p>I have a vague recollection from when my S went to Penn that we were told it was fairly easy to transfer from Wharton to College, and fairly difficult the other direction. You might keep that in mind if the only thing you don’t like about Penn is the particular program you’ve been admitted into, you could go anyway, and look into switching schools within Penn.</p>

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<p>Well done to you. There are no bad choices on the list.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>It might be worth it to post this thread on the Indian thread in the Intl forum to check out the various ‘Indian implications’. You seem to be testing the limits with your parents. Indian students may address that issue with more insight than Anglo parents. Me thinks.</p></li>
<li><p>Only know you in the cyber sense, but you write with a sort of ‘intellectual’ quest in your voice–much more so than the typical male CC poster. That’s what makes me think you should allow yourself the chance to pursue that quest at the highest levels. Honestly, some of your dismissals (Princeton and Stanford come to mind) were made on a surface level, on an impression basis.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>When you look at the course lisitngs for the three or four areas that interest you, which schools have the deepest offerings? Think about selecting a school that will thrill you in junior year. which school has the deepest offerings in both evolutionary psych AND economics. Of Which professors get the best student reviews?</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Here’s the reality: with these acceptance, you know and your parents should knwo that you are already wildly wildly successful. Chances are, you will continue that trajectory and become a wildly successful adult. The details of the career and the size of the salary packet don’t matter as much as the passion you find for your pursuits. Believe it or not, even your Indian parents will adjust to whatever salary packet you earn.</p></li>
<li><p>If your parents say they can afford it, then trust them. Although you might WISH your family wasn’t so involved, you also seem to have a deep connection to them. Let them pay for your educaiton.</p></li>
<li><p>Try the famed CC experiment. Pretend you are going to Penn for a whole day. What does that feel likea? Are you excited about the idea? Then, two days later, imagine you are going to Princeotn for a day. Then UChicago–whichever school pulls you.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Good luck.</p>