The tutors are high performing undergrads and grad students. They are usually employed by a tutoring service group like such
No, I meant on campusā¦ I was just replying to rockypa about the tutoring cottage industry they mentioned in post #371.
ETA cross posted with the aboveā¦I am sure some students just market their tutoring services on their own, and donāt go through a third party provider like wyzant.
Some high performing students get private tutoring throughout high school, including for test prep (not because they are struggling, but to optimize their grades or to āenrichā them). They often have fantastic grades/standardized test scores but have never had to figure things out themselves - some have never experienced any kind of academic failure. No surprise that when confronted with tough material and without the support theyāve gotten all their lives, they turn to private tutoring. Itās what they know. Also, some kids are better prepared than others depending on where they attended HS. Some bright kids have coasted through HS without ever having to study/work hard and then are surprised when they hit a tough patch. That being said, I see no issue with seeking academic support when you need it. Needing help sometimes doesnāt mean you arenāt smart and capable. You may just have holes in your preparation.
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Yes, that happens too.
I looked at their website. It seems to be designed for low-level courses. The more advanced subjects/topics arenāt even available.
I havenāt looked. I am on a Parents FB page and there is a constant request for tutors.
That website has been shared as an option.
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Thanks, @RockyPA @Thorsmom66. Looks like the typical dispersion of abilities, even at elite colleges.
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Comments by Penn and most similar colleges do not suggest that the demand far exceeds supply, nor does this fit with my experience. Instead such colleges tend to hire more students, when demand exceeds supply. At the college I attended, you could just show up to the department during certain hours, and there would be grad students available to assist students who wanted support, had questions, or just generally wanted to talk about the subject (generally for lower level courses), rather than having to be assigned an individual peer tutor.
The highest demand for tutoring tends to come in lower level courses for which there is the largest supply of students to hire, while the lowest demand tends to come in higher level courses for which there is more likely to be a supply limitation. However, higher level courses tend to be smaller and have more options for personal attention and questions via professor and TA, which can provide similar types of academic support for student. Some numbers from Pennās senior survey are below. I also checked MITās senior survey, which was very similar on all common metrics.
- 38% received tutoring via college (compared to 37% at peer colleges)
- 34% worked as tutor for college (compared to 38% at peer colleges)
- 75% satisfied with availability of tutoring (compared to 78% at peer colleges)
- 82% satisfied with experience of receiving tutoring
- 91% satisfied with experience of working as tutor
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Iāve learned about so many different social/academic practices around the country here at College Confidential, but finding out today that there are a lot of students at our countryās most elite colleges who are paying for outside tutoring blows my mind. The idea that the free tutoring being offered by the university or that the professor or TAās assistance is not enough just boggles my mind. I donāt know if itās a prestige thing to pay for the outside tutoring vs. taking advantage of the free resources, but my jaw is still slackened. Totally stunned.
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Sometimes supplementation instruction isnāt often enough and the professor is terrible, and tutors are needed.
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Yes I wasnāt expecting it either. There are a lot of complaints that the free tutoring is impossible to get/book (my resource for this info is a Parents FB page), hence the need to pay for outside tutors. You would think office hours would be enough (thatās where my daughter goes when she has a question). She has had classmates offer to pay her to tutor them.
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100% concur. My daughter is premed and is taking organic chemistry. There is no curve in the class, and itās a weed out class. People are dropping like flies because the prof doesnāt curve. I encouraged her to take advantage of all available resources, including a tutor, to ensure the best possible grade.
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I suspect some of the differences from Penn comments, senior surveys of students, and my personal experiences relate to recent COVID-related effects. COVID no doubt influences both the availability of in-person tutoring and desire for additional academic support/questions, in classes that have less in-person interaction with professor/TAs.
Student surveys suggest that prior to COVID, a good portion of students received tutoring through the school, and a good portion of students worked for the college as tutors. This pattern isnāt specific to Penn. Itās true at MIT, Brown, Cornell, and every other Ivy+ type college I checked. Surveys suggest that at such colleges, students generally seem satisfied with both the availability and quality of tutoring via the school.
My experience was that many students use this type of tutoring as a way to supplement their academic experience and better learn material for the class, particularly in classes that have less options for personal interaction with TA and professor. I would not assume that taking advantage of free academic support options for tutoring means that you are unprepared for the college, just as I would not assume attending office hours with the professor means you are unprepared for the college.
Ivy+ type colleges generally want the students to be academic successful, rather than just throw everyone in the deep end and see who sinks and who swims. They usually offer many options for academic support beyond just tutoring, as well as encourage students to help and supporting each other in many ways beyond just tutoring. For example, in my engineering classes, professors usually encouraged students to do problem sets in groups. Students also usually studied for exams in groups, and asked each other related questions about the course content. There was generally a collaborative atmosphere, rather than at atmosphere of trying to beat your peers to get a limited supply of Aās.
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^^This. My Penn student has been astonished by the ineffectiveness of professors and TAs in her major. They are unhelpful to the point of bordering on hostile towards students. They hold group office hours where no one will dare admit to struggling (i.e Penn Face). Weingarten is constantly overwhelmed with tutoring requests. Iām not surprised students are paying for tutors. There are few other options for struggling students or those that just need some focused instruction.
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@mountainsoul what is your child majoring in!? Mine is studying computer science. She has been pretty happy with the TA run office hours and finds them useful/helpful. Math on the other hand, is not taught well at all unfortunately (flipped classroom? They watch videos and then go to lecture for practiceā¦ very strange).
Luckily she is able to learn on her own.
Biology, but the chemistry department is equally terrible. Iāve heard good things about CS from my D as my S23 is considering applying to Penn for it. All of Dās friends seem very happy with the department and professors.
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CS is definitely a very difficult major at Penn with very challenging intro classes. But there seems to be support available.
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Never underestimate the net worth of many of the parents of students at elite universities. Spending another $10k on tutoring is nothing.
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I wouldnāt have sent my kid to UPenn if she needed tutoringā¦ we are paying enough in tuition already.
Itās common practice for engineering majors to go to help rooms, office hours, review sessions, and tutoring. It has nothing to do with being unprepared for college. Itās about solidifying difficult concepts and having more practice.
IMO, one of the worst things students can do heading to college is being afraid of asking for help.
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