No tutoring on the side in Stanford and no such requests in the parents’ FB group. My son is very excited by his classes and his profs. They have been on site since the beginning of the year with only three weeks in the beginning of January spent in zoom classes.
He did report that some kids do not seem to spend enough time to understand the material and strugle with the homework. One of these kids in one of his classes was a cross-admit between Harvard and Stanford. If it is similar to our HS, probably some kids overextend themselves with too many classes and clubs and don’t spend time to sit and think. They just check the box and move on to the next thing. Hopefully, not the case but who knows
Really? Some people pay for private anything and everything. Tours at Disneyland because they don’t want to wait in line. Pre-boarding on airplanes. Special entry times to concerts. Reserved parking. People want preferential treatment and are willing to pay for it. Private tutors can be available on your schedule rather than you being assigned a time and a random tutor (or TA, or study group).
My daughter was a tutor while in college for a class and was assigned one student. The next year the girl’s mother paid my daughter to basically be this girl’s mentor and ‘tutor’ for all her classes, even classes my daughter really knew little about. Not an elite school and the girl could have used the school’s tutors but her mother liked the personal attention, and my daughter liked the money. Win/win.
In our local public high schools outside tutors are totally normal. Not just for students who are behind, but many to stay ahead. The tutors track the class syllabus a week ahead. Doesn’t surprise me at all the students rely on tutors in college, too.
It’s one thing if a student needs help for a class or a subject, which these elite colleges should be able to provide adequate on-campus resources for. It’s quite another if a student needs outside help because they want to outcompete their fellow students. If the reason is the former, then the school failed to provide adequate resources to meet the demand because they admitted too many weaker students than they anticipated. If the reason is the latter, then the school has an unhealthy environment. Neither is good.
I can’t comment on anything “elite”, but when I went to a one of my state ‘s universities I had to get tutoring in math. My city HS just didn’t prepare me for the rigor of college. No shame in it.
I went on to graduate Magna Cum Laude, so I think it worked out.
Knowing the lengths that people will go to be admitted to one of these schools, it is hardly surprising that some students will marshal every possible resource to out compete their peers.
I’m not sure what the problem is here? People outcompete their peers from everything from grades to job promotions, at all stages of life. Being at the top of ones class does have benefits from everything from grad school acceptances to job offers.
My D has never used a paid tutor but she certainly takes advantage of all the study sessions and office hours available at her school, as does her entire friend group.
But for how long? These students who need outside tutoring to gain an edge over their peers wouldn’t be able to continue doing this as they progress toward more advanced courses. What happens when they no longer have this edge (I actually think students who needed this don’t have much of an edge to begin with)? The shock that they aren’t competitive will come sooner or later.
I don’t see any problem with kids using tutoring - paid or otherwise. I’m just reacting to the fact that people are surprised - they shouldn’t be. I think people view tutoring pejoratively because they associate it with academic struggles - in reality a lot of kids in college use it to do as well as they can. Many of the students giving college tours mentioned using the tutoring services to make sure they did as well as possible.
The only question I have about using tutoring all the time to get the best grade possible, is what happens after college when those supports disappear.
So long as the kid can work independently, and figures out time management and that not everything is a competition, and how not to be a perfectionist, then good for them for taking advantage of the resources available.
But my impression is that many of those kids who live in office hours trying to eek out every possible percentage point possible- they are also underslept and overstressed and overwhelmed and often burned out by 19.
My D uses the university learning center whenever she needs to. She knows if she wants to better understand a concept, additional information is helpful. Sometimes the Prof doesn’t communicate well or the TA is unavailable, for whatever reason, I am just glad that she doesn’t carry the impression of some here that’s she’s somehow lacking if she seeks to better understand.
Also, I don’t understand the thought that asking for help in college, somehow will result in an adult who can’t handle a work environment where they would be expected to stand “on their own 2 feet” and not need any help. I think most work environments are relatively collaborative these days. Who is really expected to stand on their own, knowing everything they need to know on day one?
Maybe I am reading too much into some of these comments, but I don’t think they reflect the real world.
There are people who make careers out of out working as many people as they can. Taking advantage of any advantage they can find. And they do well with it. Every step along the way, someone struggles to move to the next level. Some will with less issue than others; some won’t make it.
I am so confused and will have to do a deep dive later but using tutors at college, peer to peer, study groups, professor hours, learning /writing centers is a STRENGTH not a weakness at all. If you have a child that is mature enough to realize this that’s great. Most of the people I know and students at many schools elite or not are some of the best students because they do seek help as above. Why would this be a weakness? Also collaboration is something most students will have to learn in real life jobs. What they won’t adk/seek help at their jobs either when they need it. Also, being able to “teach” others reinforces that current knowledge.
So if you have children that are all that then let them help the ones that need some insight. At some point in life that can be your students as well.
Yes, there’re competitions at every level of the society. As a matter of fact, our economy wouldn’t have worked without all the competitions. So I’m certainly not against competitions. I do question, however, whether hiring outside tutors in order to gain an edge in the competitions is a good idea, because it’s unsustainable in college and later in life.
Competition and collaboration aren’t mutually exclusive. In fact, some of the most challenging schools are also the most collaborative. They encourage students to work on homework/projects (obviously not on exams, etc.) collaboratively. The best learning isn’t always in the classrooms. It also happens when they work with and are challenged by their peers.
BTW, no one questions whether students who feel there’s a need should seek out help/resources that are available to them on campus.
Different people have different view on that. Maybe it helps you get into your desired major or into grad or professional school. Some may say it you need that much help you won’t graduate in that major or from that grad/professional school. Maybe but not necessarily. Some of the best doctors/attorneys I know didn’t go to elite schools and didn’t get top grades in school. But they all found a way to graduate (because its a prereq to what they do well).
S2 is applying to Waterloo for CompE. It is by far the most amount of work of any of his admission applications(i.e Cornell, Rice, Duke). There are multiple small essays, and a recorded interview. Jobs and activities outside of school are also noted, though the emphasis is more on how those activities highlight their fitness for the major they are applying to, rather than any “holistic” aim.
I don’t know if he is facing a more rigorous application process because he is from out of the country.
S1 is at McGill. There is definitely an admissions advantage if you are an accomplished athlete. An extreme example of such an athlete would be Laurent Duvernay-Tardif, but there are others(Olympians, etc.). They will demand that athletes keep their grades up, however. S1 knows multiple athletes that have had to leave the school for academic reasons…there aren’t a lot of fluff courses there.
In general I do agree that the CAN system seems simpler.