There is a very simple solution to that problem, mcat, never ever take out loans for a wedding.
^ Or let the bank of mom & dad take care of it in the first place. The problem is resolved.
I wouldn’t know what that’s like so I can’t comment 
Our solution, as people who would never take out loans for something as (in our minds) silly as a wedding and can’t rely on our parents, is to have a wedding that we can afford. It really isn’t that hard IMO.
Wow, so many good points. I read something once about what makes a good marriage and then everything else falls in line. The Desire For a Good Marriage. If two people, in their hearts no matter all the other circumstances, desire a strong and happy marriage…then all the other stuff follows…why? Because to do this, there really needs to be a lot of selflessness. Both people. And when there is selflessness, then the other person feels loved and valued and cared for…and all the good stuff happens. Both have to want it, both have to work towards. For example, down the road you learn that persons hotspot or weakness. The desire for a good marriage wins over the need to one up, or anger your partner. That’s hard sometimes.
In 36 years we have never called each other a bad name ( out loud), made each other jealous on purpose. Sometimes, as we are only human and do push the buttons, we have to tell the other ( this can be hard if one isn’t a great communicator…(.because he or she WANTS a Happy marriage) then the other listens ( even doing it fuming) and stops or does what is asked…because he or she WANTS a happy marriage. All falls into place.
This might sound simplistic…but it’s not. It takes work. Some things make it easier for sure. The things listed above. But I think all the good things will come from the shared goal.
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how can we divide the responsibility of paying off the loans we had borrowed for the big wedding not long ago? We have not paid off that big loan yet. The credit record is still important because each of us may still need to rely on a good credit to purchase the next house in the future when each of us marries with someone else.
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@mcat2 Who borrowed for a big wedding not long ago?
Anyway, it’s not a good idea to borrow for a wedding.
I come from a family with a history of long marriages…extremely few divorces within the huge extended family. No one lived with their spouse before marriage. no one. It is not a req’t to avoid divorce.
Many of you read about my divorce this year after 30+ years of marriage. I want to take the opportunity to thank you for the support I have received on this forum.
My ex and I had similar values when it came to family, kids, life style when we met in our 20s. We had one voice when it came to raising our kids, and that’s why I think the turned out to be great kids (I think). In our case, we just grew apart. I was very busy with work and kids and my ex drifted to other interests I knew nothing about. He was not happy with his own career, so I think it was hard for him to see me moving up the corporate ladder. It probably would have been easier if our roles were reversed. We couldn’t have predicted this outcome 30 years ago, because on paper we were a good match.
I grew up in a very traditional family and culture. I would have stuck it out for the sake of our family unity. My ex, raised in this culture, believed in more personal happiness. He very much wanted out to pursue his own happiness for the next 20+ years. After almost a year of coming to terms of my current situation, I actually feel better than I have in a long time. I feel less tension and am more optimistic for my future.
Whenever there is a divorce, friends tend to pick a side. In our case, without me asking for it, our friends have distanced themselves from my ex. My extended family was the only family my ex knew in the last 30 years, and now he is no longer part of it. I think maybe that’s what he wanted, getting rid of old and moving on with new.
We all change over time, sometimes we don’t change together. Marriage also take a lot of work. You can’t take each other for granted. I applaud any couple who can stay married until death do us part.
Today is also my first day of work in another city, except we are having a major snow storm. Working from home on my first day isn’t too bad.
"BTW, how can we divide the responsibility of paying off the loans we had borrowed for the big wedding not long ago? We have not paid off that big loan yet. "
Wait - are you saying you’ve already taken out loans in anticipation of your son’s wedding?
@Oldfort…your story made me sad. But I"m happy for you that you seem to be more at peace and finding your way. I hate it that your ex husband felt the need to pursue his own interests without consideration for his marriage. What strikes me in your post is the lack of bitterness. It is so easy to get tired of doing the same old same old after 30+ years. And there is some truth to the cliche of “familiarity breeds contempt”. Contempt may be too hard of a word, but there is some truth to the essence of it. Both partners feel tired of the same thing…not just one! It really is some mental work, after decades, to keep a relationship fresh. But it takes 2 people who want it, like my post indicated. One can’t do it alone like you. I"m so sorry. I really am. I think many of us put ourselves in your shoes and wonder what if that happened to me? How would I deal with it? In my marriage of 30 years, which I consider still good, I see strain sometimes. It’s just a little too easy to roll eyes, or get frustrated. Or one person wants more of something in life that the other doesn’t.
I read somewhere that the unhappiness time of a woman’s life (in general) and I wonder if this isn’t true for men…is the ages of 54 - 57. There is a real low dip. We are on the other side of the hill, our children are gone, our youth is gone, wonder how we got where we are, we are tired of working. I think I’m going thru a dip now, and maybe even my DH, too.
I truly like my husband. He’s the person I most want to spend time with in this world. We have similar values and were raised similarly. We made it a priority to take a vacation every year without the kids. We focused on us as a couple, not just the kids. We were flat broke together and built a life and a company together. We rely on each other and we’re kind to each other.
When we were dating he pursued me. After we met he called me, he drove up to see me (2 hours away) He made plans to do things he thought I’d like. He wasn’t in a rush to have sex. He met my parents, he made them dinner. I never had a moments doubt that he was into me. I was the first girl since high school he took home to meet his parents (a 10 hour drive)
Right before we got married he got a job in a different state. Right after the honeymoon I moved away from home. We essentially only had each other and built our lives together independent from family. I think that was a real crucial thing for us to establish ourselves together.
We have fun together and laugh together every day. Before we were married we talked about how I wanted to stay home to raise the kids - and that was a deal breaker to me. We even agreed early on that he would never take a job that required a lot of travel. He’s the one I cry to and the one I depend on emotionally.
He’s much neater than me, he taught me some things like clean as you go. But when we first started getting more successful we hired a cleaning lady, it took away a lot of the frustration between us. It’s not like I didn’t want a clean house, but I hate cleaning and I didn’t want him resentful over spending all his time cleaning since I didn’t care as much. We both grew up having dinner as a family every night and we made that a priority. I had never really cooked when we got married and he was a really good cook. We ended up splitting that up - we each cook 3 nights a week. And I have to say I’m a better dinner maker than he is now - he’s got more natural talent.
Some things I have told my kids - don’t date someone long term you couldn’t see yourself marrying, even if you’re nowhere near wanting to get married. Think twice about dating someone you’d be embarrassed to have us meet. And I have already told them about the dangers of marrying someone with large student loans. We talked about it putting you behind for life…when you’re paying off loans for 10 years you aren’t saving for the future of your kids and your retirement, it affects the house buying, etc
I have prayed their entire lives for their future spouses and that they are being raised in loving homes.
People say being married is hard work, I never felt like that - to me it’s the easiest thing in the world.
To the thread title: It really doesn’t matter what fit factor I feel is more important in a marriage (after all, look at Mary Matalin and James Carville, who hold diametrically opposed political views). It matters what fit factors the two people involved care about. Religion is a huge deal (and deal-breaker) to some people – otoh, my parents had different religious views and it was a complete non-issue between them, not one word of discord over it. So who knows? It just isn’t something you can predict / describe for anyone else IMO.
@conmama - How can you not be bitter or angry over a divorce. Like others, I went through that stage. I am only more comfortable in telling people IRL. My girls have talked to me at length about marriage. D1 wonders if she would end up in the same situation if she should marry her current “seem perfect” BF. I told her that she can’t predict future, and she shouldn’t stop living because what may happen in the future.
My parents did go through a difficult period from age 55-60. My father wanted to leave because he wondered if there was more to life than what he had. They got through it. In the last 15 years of my father life, he was very much in love with my mom and they were very happy.
I do think the late fifties are tough. I know now that I will never be famous, never be rich and probably never own the land that I want to have. But I also know that I am pretty happy. My dh and I are best friends but he retired early and that has been a stress factor for me. I am so use to having time and the house to myself. It is a big adjustment. I am still working (subbing, so very flexible) and that helps. Looking back, we are from different economic worlds but our families shared the same values. I loved and still love his whole family. I liked how he respected his family and how kind he was/is to everyone. We also share similar views on money. We met at college where we lived on the same co-ed floor. There were four marriages out of that community and all are still together. I think part of what helped was that we saw each other day in and day out. No makeup, sleep deprived and with bed head hair.
I have no personal standing here–never married, adopted my only child as a single woman. But something I observed with a close family member and his wife was activity/sociability levels. This guy married a woman he loved and respected. The immediate cause of the marriage was that a baby was on the way. But she is an introverted homebody and he is very gregarious. Much unhappiness on both sides over this issue, although the marriage survived–they are going on their 31st anniversary.
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she is an introverted homebody and he is very gregarious.
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In such situations, I’ve sometimes have observed this…the gregarious one LIKES not competing with another person for “the stage”. The quiet one serves as a 24/7 audience. One household is often not “large enough” to handle two “larger than life” individuals…someone has to stay back-stage.
In the case of my family member, the gregarious one always wanted to go out, accompanied by his partner who wanted to stay home. Also, Mr. Gregarious wanted to entertain at home and Ms. Homebody did not. There were many conflicts.
I know a couple who fit that profile - he was socially and politically active, she hardly even spoke around other people. A few years (and three kids) later, they are separating. I don’t know how they got together in the first place, but it was not hard at all for them to divide.
My partner is the gregarious one whereas I’m the homebody. He’s somewhat of a homebody, too, but to a much lesser degree than me. I rarely go to parties with him and it works just fine for us.
I don’t think it’s always necessary to have a good fit based on education-my brother and SIL have been married 30 years despite different levels of education. I don’t think economic backgrounds is necessary-my sister and BIL are going on 25 years and there is a large difference in background there. And religious differences aren’t always a deal-breaker-I know any number of people with years together despite being from different religions. I think that ultimately what matters is respect and communication.
On the surface, H and I are from very, very different circumstances. He grew up low-income, in a single-parent household (his father died when he was very young). He is from a different religious branch, he has mostly lived within a few miles of where he was born. His parents were authoritarian-do it my way or else, where mine were not. Both of his parents worked menial jobs, sometimes two or three at a time (which is why both died very young). My mother had a college education but never used it and didn’t work until I was nearly grown and my father owned his own business. He was orphaned by the time he started college and paid his own way-and is still paying off loans. My parents were able to cover my education. And of course, H and I are of different races.
What has gotten us through all the typical challenges plus the challenges of having different backgrounds and the stress of having a late-in-life child plus my two older kids from a previous marriage has been our respect for each other and a willingness to talk things out when there’s a glitch. I won’t lie, it hasn’t always been easy. But we’re both committed to each other, and after 16 years, it’s only gotten better.
Although it was my ex’s decision to leave after 10 years together, it became clear to both of us that he was a very broken person who needed lots of therapy to fix himself. We never should have gotten married. I’m glad we did because of my older kids, but our similar backgrounds did not help at all in things working or not.
Tolerance, commitment with magic and luck, is what I think.
About 22 years ago, two cousins were on the thresh hold of getting married. One was marrrying someone close to his age, with similar outlooks, backgrounds, no noticeable baggage, both starting out as young people with similar goals and very much in love. His brother was 19 and involved with a woman nearly twice his age. He quit college to live with her, work part time at some minimum wage job, helping out with the household and with her two children who were close to his age. She had a different background, different priorities, all sorts of issues and problems. The mother of the two young men was truly upset about the choice of her youngest.
Fast forward 20 years, and the younger one is still married, with a child who is now on the brink of graduating from college, an excellent student and lovely young woman. He never did go back to college but has found a job with a good living wage, and the family seems stable and happy. Not so his brother who went through an acrimonious divorce that tore that family apart and hurt the children terrible leaving a lot of financial as well as emotional debris. Who could have guessed such outcomes.
For a guy: Looks and personality
For a girl: Looks, personality, money, how he dresses, job, education, excitement factor, family man, communication, social interactions, cultural customs, religion, whether his hair casts the right shadow on his face at 3:46 in the afternoon…