@fractalmstr hilarious! Actually, I read something that Dr. Oz said about how men like their partner just the way she is and don’t want her to change after marrying in any way. Women marry looking at their partner seeing the true man he will eventually become. Very similar to what you said…and I’m assuming you are a man?
oldfort – glad you’re doing ok. I followed your story as I was going through a very similar situation at the same time.
I think that respectful communication is the key. Ex and I saw eye to eye on everything for years, until we didn’t. Ex didn’t want to discuss our emerging differences and decided that divorce was better than working on it. By the time it happened we were both so frustrated with the situation it was a relief.
One aspect that I see in hindsight is the history of divorce in our immediate families. Between ex’s parents and siblings there were nearly 10 divorces. I had none.
I am getting married this year, so I’m trying to soak up all this wisdom. Task #1, IMHO, is not letting the wedding-industrial complex distract us from the marriage.
@oldfort and @Indiana91 - thoughts are with you both.
This is official, Hanna? Mazel tov!
The most important fit factor is sex.
It’s not true love until you’ve signed the dotted line and accept full legal responsibility!
Kidding of course (sorta). Congrats!
@ oldfort-
I am happy to hear that you are finding a new place for yourself, moving towards being at peace. I am near where you in terms of longevity of marriage (we are approaching 27 years this year), and I have had my moments when I really worried we would grow apart, that with our S out of the house, it would go south, but we have done very well in the last year and a half, but I also have had times when I seriously wondered if we would make it.
The thing about any marriage is that what makes a marriage work often varies from couple to couple, some people care a lot about religion, others don’t, something another couple would laugh off would cause another couple to split up, so it is very hard to make generalizations. One of the most difficult problems is we often don’t know why we are attracted to the people we are, and sometimes what can attract us is negative things from our pasts (not saying that is always the case, just as a possiblity), and that can cause problems later.
I do think that no matter what a couple’s values are, that communication is key, and respect as well, they have fights, being on opposite ends of the political spectrum should be certified relationship suicide, but it works because they know how to fight, and they also have respect for each other. Empathy places a role in this as well, if you can understand what the other person feels, understand why they react in ways that bothers you, you can not take it quite as personally. My W has things that came out of her family background, certain fears or reactions to things, that can drive me nuts, but I also understand where they are coming from and as hurt and angry as I can be, I also can instead of take it as a personal attack, channel it into trying to talk to her about it, make her understand that she is reacting irrationally, etc. One of the biggest things to me is realizing that neither partner is totally logical and see things through various colored glasses, so to speak.
I think also being able to feel safe with each other is important. Not in the sense that it always will be easy, or worse a relationship where parties, rather than talk about difficult things or express anger or emotion, bury it, but rather where they get to the point where they know that whatever happens, however angry they get, they can talk to the other person, even fight or squabble, but not face being buried under a blitz of negative statements, hateful statements or worse, that as bad as it gets, they don’t want to hurt the other person.
And with this communication, is talking about needs and dreams and fantasies and whatnot, about sharing. One of the things I have seen with people who I know who got divorced is they stopped talking about these things, they wouldn’t talk about fantasies, they wouldn’t talk about dreams because 'it was too silly", which translates to “I don’t feel safe telling the other person my needs/dreams/fantasies,. because they will make fun of me” or worse.
I also think that as a society we still place too little emphasis on sexual compatibility, it seems that as society has become more and more sexualized, that sexual compatibility is still a big issue in many relationships, that people still are afraid to talk about their needs and wants, feeling guilty about it and so forth, and I think that causes problems. What has made it worse I think is that people, especially women, are still brought up with attitudes where they aren’t supposed to ask for what they need, and when you have a world where you see and read so much about sex, what is out there, the frustrations build up, or worse, people go off into cyberspace or up in their heads to get what they are looking for rather than looking to each other. There is a reason why adult fantasies (not your mother’s Harlequin romances) and the phenomenon of 50 Shades of Gray happened, why they are an exploding portion of the book world, and it is because they are all about people finding what they need, getting what they need, even though obviously they are fiction and with 50 Shades of Gray, it isn’t exactly a recipe for real life lol.
As far as liberal divorce laws versus the old days, I’ll take the liberal divorce laws, as much as I have some problems with the way they are done (I think it is idiotic that in many states, a spouse can have an affair, cause the marriage to blow up, and in a sense get rewarded for what they did). The ‘good old days’ weren’t so good, often you had couples who were forced to stay married, which could mean continual domestic abuse,or for example with Spencer Tracey, ended up living with another woman while still married to his wife, or husbands or wives simply walking away, never getting divorced. The interesting part about divorce is apparently as time has gone on, divorce rates are coming down, among younger generations, maybe because they were children of divorce, they seem to be less likely to easily divorce.
I was married when I was young ( 23 ) On paper, it all looked good , but at the end of the day , we were more like friends than husband and wife. We had two daughters together and divorced after 10 years. We remained friendly, something that I think helped our daughters quite a bit .I am thankful that my now husband, who I have been with for close to 20 years and my ex have always gotten along very well. My ex has spent some holidays with us, even though he is remarried as well …that is another story , but I won’t go there 
There have never been awkward celebrations or other family gatherings like funerals.
My now husband and I grew up in different countries and cultures . We are not perfect by any means. I love music and still follow it as I did for most of my life. He has zero interest in it…we have different spending habits, so I have always maintained my own separate bank accounts. I save money that he knows nothing about…not the all out Swiss bank account kind of savings, but a small emergency fund that keeps me from depending on credit cards
We love to spend time together, love to travel together. I have to say that after all of these years , he still treats me like a queen and sort of puts me on a pedestal.
My sister divorced her very difficult husband about 7 years ago…she met another guy, who really isn’t much better and recently sold her house and moved in with him. Most of our family is worried about it…she definitely settled…again.
An example :
LAst week she came down with the flu and also was caught up in the blizzard in MA…I think close to 3 ’ of snow. She was bedridden and down for the count for a few days.
She asked him to pick up two things from the store for her…Campbell’s chicken noodle soup and orange sherbet…seems pretty simple but he came back with an off brand of chicken broth and mango sorbet.
Now that might seem like no big deal , but this is how I see it…she asked for two very simple items to make her feel better and he didn’t care enough to do it right. To me, that speaks volumes about how little he values her.
It’s the little things, the gestures of kindness and tenderness that go a long way when it comes to making a union work
This sounds very clinical, but I think everyone should read 5 Love Languages, and complete a Meyers-Brigg personality test. The results of each, will give you a lot of insight on the whys and behaviors of your partner. My love language is Service, and for many years my spouse poo-pooed that as not being important. It wasnt until he read the book that he realized that it was just as important as affirmation.
I agree with you, partyof5, on both Myers-Briggs and the love languages. Knowing that about myself / my spouse has helped us navigate many issues.
“She asked him to pick up two things from the store for her…Campbell’s chicken noodle soup and orange sherbet…seems pretty simple but he came back with an off brand of chicken broth and mango sorbet.
Now that might seem like no big deal , but this is how I see it…she asked for two very simple items to make her feel better and he didn’t care enough to do it right. To me, that speaks volumes about how little he values her.”
This is very interesting from a love-languages perspective - because I wouldn’t take that interpretation at all! But I do know people who would!
^^ You might need to know more background about the guy. I am probably the most tolerant of him in our extended family. He is basically a selfish person that doesn’t put much effort forward to make other people happy. He seems oblivious to others. He has children, two of whom are grown, one is a high school freshman. He doesn’t have a good relationship with any of them. My sister is the one who has to live with him , but we all just wish he was kinder and more considerate.
lje62 I would not interpret what your sister’s boyfriend did negatively at all. My H does that all the time. I send him out for X and he comes home with Y. I think that he tried to please her and that is what counts. Men are not always as particular as we are - to them soup is soup and any old kind of ice cream or sherbet will do. Now if he would not go at all, that would be a different story.
Funny. . .I thought getting the wrong thing at the store was just a “guy thing”–and a good strategy to make sure you never ask him to get anything at the store again.
Has anyone gone through that list of 36 Questions? (Something that has been floating around the internet for awhile.) It is more for people who just met to get to know/feel good about/close to–or even fall in love with each other. But could be good for married couples, too. I saw this recently, and asked H to do it with me. (The miracle was that he agreed to do this silly thing that I wanted to do. . .) We learned a thing or two about each other–it was interesting.
Everyone has to decide on their “deal-breakers.” For us, being the same religion was extremely important. Intellectual match was also a top one. Also, H and I were opposites–looking for and impressed by someone who had the qualities we lacked. Really, like finding your “better half” (or at least your “other half”).
I have a large extended family, and my maternal grandma used to brag about how there were no divorces among her 6 children and 20 married grandchildren. (2 of the grandchildren later divorced. . .but the rest have now been married in the 20-40+ year range. All of her children made it past 50 years.) Now even some of the great grandchildren are married and none of them are divorced. As someone mentioned above, just having the commitment to a lasting marriage is an important factor. These couples all had some problems, some serious ones. But they really believed in the vows, “For better, for worse, in sickness and in health, until death do us part,” so whatever happened, they were determined to work it out. Also, they had a lot of positive peer pressure/ good role models/family support to help them stay married. My H jokes that my family just has low standards–the prevailing attitude is “Shrug. So, my marriage ain’t so hot. . .but it could be a lot worse!”
I don’t see it that way…I see my sister asking for a small favor. The easiest soup to find is Campbell’s and the easiest of the flavors is chicken noodle. There were two items on the list. Two.
It wasn’t like she asked for Sriracha sauce and haricot verts, which I suspect most husbands would not be able to find without assistance from a store employee. Two simple items that he couldn’t be bothered to see that he got right.
His partner was sick in bed for days…didn’t eat anything during that time other than drinking water.
Maybe I am spoiled , although I don’t take it for granted, but I know my husband would have made sure to get me what I wanted, even if it meant asking others to confirm it was the right thing
I’m sure knowing more about this guy would possibly make it obvious he didn’t listen/care, but I don’t think I’ve ever been grocery shopping that I don’t see at least one guy either calling home to clarify what it is he’s supposed to get, asking me or some other woman what X is and where he can find it or taking a photo of something to send to the wife for an ok. Or they just stand there staring blankly at the display then tentatively picking up one of several brands of an item.
Given what I’ve seen, I’d guess the H thought he was saving money buying the off-brand of soup and thought mango was an interesting new flavor the wife might like. It’s exactly what my own ex would have done-if he remembered why I sent him in the first place. He wasn’t mean or clueless, he was ADD but was undiagnosed at the time. I used to think he didn’t care either.
sseamom, my husband is dyslexic and English is not his native language. He has been known to call me or text me a picture in the rare event he would pick something up at the store. And if I was sick, he probably would have texted one of our daughters to ask for a confirmation. I know his limitations and would literally spell it out for him if need be. This is why I can’t understand why my sister’s partner couldn’t make some effort . I just don’t see those two items as being so challenging to purchase…
And if anything, he would come home with more things than I asked for…things I would never indulge in
@ oldfort, Wish you well on your next job.
Pizzagirl and mom2ck, I do not borrow any money and will not borrow one. (I think I rarely borrowed money except for mortgage.)
I just tried to make a joke (but apparently I was not successful.)
Yes, Pizzagirl, it’s official!
A guy who’s really considerate and also bad at grocery store runs (aka my guy) knows that he’s not good at this, thinks it’s a problem that he’s not good at this, and is sorry when he doesn’t get it right. He doesn’t act like you’re being unreasonable.
I needed to glaze a fruit tart and asked him to get red currant jelly. He came back with red currant jam – he had no idea that jelly and jam aren’t the same thing. You physically can’t make glaze out of jam, so he had to go back. On the other hand, he had someone making him a fruit tart, so he considered that a win.