Which school will be best fit? Any chance for Stanford or Brown, Cornell? [international]

Chance Me / Match Me
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Demographics

  • Canadian Citizen
  • State/Location of residency: Canada
  • Type of high school: Private
  • Gender/Race/Ethnicity: Male
  • Other special factors (first generation to college, legacy, athlete, etc.):

Intended Major(s)
Physics / Engineer

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 4.85 out of 5
  • Weighted HS GPA: N/A
  • Class Rank: top 10%.
  • ACT/SAT Scores: 1560

Coursework
AP Chemistry - 5
AP Biology - 5
AP Physics C Mechanics - 5
AP Physics C Electricity & Magnetism - 5
AP Calculus BC - 5
AP Music Theory - 5
AP Computer Science A - 5
AP Computer Science Principles - 5

Awards within 3 years:

  • international astro olympiad national team
  • Top of CAP physics contest**
  • Silver medal in international science olympiad
  • Bronze medal in CBO
  • 4*AIME
  • Second place in **3rd International piano Competition(for high school)
  • First place in Canadian Music Competition (CMC)

Extracurriculars
Founder / Executive / Coach of School Astro Club
Volunteer at Observatory
renowned physics Summer Camp, one of 40 high school students from the world
Executive at Math Club
Research paper
Conductor at School
Piano for Senior Home, Perform for cancer donation event
Executive at other activity Club
Attend High School Experience Program in company
Provide Piano Lessons, Collaborating with Esteemed Faculty Members

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There are a lot of great options for Physics and Engineering in the US. What is your budget, and what else might you be looking for in a college besides those departments?

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I’m also going to tag @hebegebe for potential insights into admissions chances with your awards.

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budget is not a concern. but it is nice to get scholarship. i am also considering music as minor in these schools.

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Thanks.

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You are competitive for the top universities in the US, such as Stanford. However, so are the large majority of other applicants. Admissions for international students is very, very competitive. You should expect your chances to not be all that different from the overall acceptance rate for international students, which is in the low single percentages (perhaps something like 1% or 2%).

In addition to getting admitted, there are at least two other issues. One is paying for university in the US. Another is getting a job after you graduate from a top university in the US.

What is your budget? Can you afford to pay roughly US$400,000 for four years of university? This is about C$550,000 in Canadian dollars. If not, then have you run the Net Price Calculator for the schools that you are considering? The NPC might not be accurate for an international student, but it is likely to either be accurate or too optimistic.

Also, after getting a degree from a highly ranked university in the US, you should not expect to be allowed to stay in the US. International students are required to return to their home country after graduating (or otherwise ending their education). At least in my experience Canadian employers seem to prefer to hire graduates from the excellent universities in Canada rather than Canadian graduates from the top universities in the US (even at the Stanford / MIT level).

You have multiple excellent universities in Canada. Toronto of course comes to mind, but there are lots more as I am sure that you know (UBC, Alberta, Queen’s, McMaster, McGill, …).

Another option is to get a bachelor’s degree in Canada, and then get a master’s degree (or other graduate degree) in the US. I know several people who have done this, including graduate degrees at Stanford or Princeton after a bachelor’s in Canada. One daughter is currently getting a PhD at a very good university in the US after graduating from a university in Canada. Depending upon whether you qualify for financial aid, this could cost less compared to just getting a bachelor’s degree in the US, plus you will have made contacts in Canada which are likely to help find a job, and you could end up with a graduate degree.

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How important is it?

The three schools in your title have no merit but admission wise, you are very competitive. Why not you?

You asked which fits best? That depends on your desires - from weather to location to even more.

If you’re interested in Astro and do want merit, take a chance on Vanderbilt, which has the Dyer observatory and the potential for merit.

If you are seeking a lower cost but outstanding program with your astro interest, U of Arizona fits the bill (strong in both Physics and engineering) as is Arizona State, U Florida, and Purdue.

Great background - best of luck.

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Thanks for your reply. I am more interested in physics or engineering. My parents told me no worries for tuition. My question is which one I have more chance to get accepted? And which one will fit ED or REA better? Thanks.

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Canadian school will not offer minor. I will not be able to study engineer and music at the same time. I hope I can do major in engineer and minor in music. Which university I can have more chance if I apply ED/REA? I have no humanity AP courses. Thanks.

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At colleges like these for applicants like you, I am skeptical applying ED/REA will make a material difference in your chances.

But if I had to guess, I would guess your chances were best at Cornell (early or regular). That does not mean you should apply to ED at Cornell, however. You should only apply there ED if you are sure it is where you would want to go even if you could be admitted to other colleges like Stanford or Brown, or got large merit offers from other colleges, or so on.

Edit: Oh, and personally, I would strongly consider applying to Rochester. Great Physics department, also has engineering, and has an excellent music minor it is easy to combine with other things. And they have merit.

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You have a great background and will be competitive everywhere. As an international student your chances are not great as admission rates for internationals are even lower than the already tiny admit rates for American students. Also, in terms of coursework you need to have 4 years of English, 3 years of history/social studies and 3-4 years of a single foreign language at many of the schools you’ve identified. You look to be good with science/math. I’ll second the University of Rochester if you are interested in combining an interest in music with Physics or Engineering (although I’m not sure how difficult that could be). They also offer merit.

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Which will you have a better chance of being accepted?

I’m not the schools so I don’t know.

Statistically, assuming the major doesn’t impact, then Cornell - but there will be kids in at the others that get rejected to Cornell. All three have very low admission rates - but Cornell a tinge higher.

Same for ED.

But herein lies the problem - if you rather go to Brown or Stanford than Cornell, then why would you ED Cornell?

ED (or restricted) should be used only at your top choice - because especially on the ED side, if you get in, you’re bound. So if you want Cornell but ED Brown and get in, now you can’t go to Cornell…or Stanford.

You worked too hard to potentially let your top school slip away without trying!!

Have you been to all three? You never, ever bind yourself without visiting - well you shouldn’t. You will be on campus, four years, day after day. And guess what - lots of kids get taken RD too.

Don’t game the system - you might not like the end result.

And the acceptance rate and SAT score differences on these schools are marginal at best.

Good luck.

PS - the no Humanities APs - although you have Music Theory (why not) could hurt…and as others are throwing out suggestions, look at Case Western as well. And if you want an assured admit, you’ll need one or two lower in selectivity, just in case.

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I agree that you are competitive everywhere but still very low odds.

I also think Rochester and Case Western are excellent options and much less reachy.

The ED advantage at the three schools in the title is not that high. The one reach school where you could combine physics with a music minor, and where the ED bump is significantly higher, would be Northwestern in the Chicago area. Just not sure how the minor would work as Beinen is very competitive. Hoping someone who is more familiar with NU will jump in on ease of minoring.

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Brown seems to be the outlier here; it’s smaller, widely known for its Open Curriculum; the ivy is a bit thicker. In addition to a regular, ABET accredited, engineering program which requires quite a number of building block courses beginning first-year, they also have a Bachelor of Arts (AB) in Engineering which is non-ABET accredited but allows for greater exploration of other parts of the curriculum. Is something like that a possible draw?

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One of the nice things about Rochester is they have scalable programs, so you can do a minor in Music, but also what they call a “cluster”:

As they say there, the Music clusters are in Humanities. This is important because the way they set up their curriculum, if you major in the Natural Sciences (so Physics) you would have to do a cluster each in Humanities and Social Sciences, and even if you do one of the accredited Engineering majors (ME, ECE, CHE, or BME), you still have to do a cluster in one of those other divisions. I note this is all instead of having a core curriculum or more rigid distributional requirements.

OK, so a Music cluster in Humanities will actually help you fill that cluster requirement if you are majoring in Natural Sciences or Engineering (or in fact complete it if you are in one of those Engineering majors).

Pretty nifty.

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Getting a bit off tangent in that OP didn’t ask for other schools, but one top school who LOVES full pay is Tufts.

Not sure if this minor works - but it might be of interest.

Minor in Music, Sound, and Culture | Department of Music (tufts.edu)

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Stanford, Brown and Cornell will all be reach schools for you. While you are a good applicant, so are most of the other students who apply to these colleges. Your chances of acceptance as an international student are lower than for a U.S. citizen.

These three schools give only need based aid. If you don’t qualify for that, you won’t be getting a dime of financial aid from them. So…it’s about $90,000 USD a year to attend.

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What kind of private school do you attend? Many Canadian boarding and some day schools have excellent track records with top US schools. Have you spoken to your guidance counselor?

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As an international student, please view the NPC results with caution. They are often not accurate for international students.

@univ_chance do you want suggestions of other colleges? If so, let us know. If not, that issue can be a closed one for now.

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@univ_chance , you should be proud of everything you have accomplished. That said, be aware that it’s much more difficult international students to be accepted than domestic students with similar qualifications.

I also wanted to address the STEM qualifications and awards you listed below. Of these, the possibly most compelling is the silver medal in the international science Olympiad. The impact it could have depends upon the field. If it’s in math, physics, or chemistry, then it can have considerable impact, and you have a decent shot at any college, including Stanford. But it’s no guarantee, as MIT only accepts about half of international IMO participants.

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