Which schools beat SUNY Stony Brook for Computer Science?

College Search & Lists
1

I’m presented with a dilemma of sorts. I have fantastic grades, course rigor, class rank, and SAT/ACT/AP scores, but I’m seriously lacking in extracurriculars. I have Spanish National Honor Society and a summer job (volunteer for 2 years, paid for the next two), and that’s about it. My social anxiety keeps me from doing a lot of ECs and being involved. Because of this, asking “what are the best schools for computer science?” straight out doesn’t help me much since my lack of “interestingness” and “passion” (sorry if I’m coming off as bitter) means that I’m hopeless at the places that are the usual answers: MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, CMU, Caltech, UMich, etc. I’m even doubting some schools less competitive than those, like GA Tech and UIUC. Obviously I’ll apply since not applying is the only way to have a 0% chance, but realistically I’ve narrowed it down to a few more choices.

The most obvious of these is Stony Brook. I’m a NY resident so it’s insanely cheaper than all the other ones. So obviously the only reason to go anywhere else is if their CS program was significantly better/had significantly better job opportunities. And to make it more complicated, I really don’t want to go to Stony Brook. I’ve heard the CS program is good, but every other aspect seems terrible. Apparently it’s largely a commuter school, so the campus is dead on the weekends. I only live an hour away, so I’d basically probably be a commuter too. This isn’t what I’m looking for in a college experience. I want an adventure, to be out in the real world. Going to a commuter school in Long Island for that is basically like going camping in your backyard. But alas, an extra $20,000-$30,000 isn’t worth it if I’m getting the same academic experience. Which is why I’m looking for options, schools with a similar acceptance rate to Stony while also having a superior CS program. One of these schools I’m looking is VA Tech. I know they have a good engineering program, but I don’t know about CS. Their acceptance rate is 70% and they’re public, so I think it’s a pretty good safety. Another is Texas A&M, which has a similarly high acceptance rate and also I’m not sure about their CS. Purdue is slightly more difficult to get in but still well above Stony. I’m pretty sure they’re superior by far to Stony in CS, which makes me think that their CS acceptance rate is actually much lower than their overall (a la UIUC and UWash). Then there’s UW Madison which has a slightly higher acceptance rate, but again the ranking of its CS makes me think it’s one of those “oh yeah this school is easy to get into unless you want to do CS” schools.Finally there’s UC Irvine, which presents another interesting dilemma. Their acceptance rate is almost identical to Stony, but I think my numbers are good enough to get that thing where if you apply to a UC school, you’re admitted to the “UC system”, meaning you can go to at least one UC school, just not necessarily the one you applied to. So I guess I’d ask how Irvine compares to Stony, and also how all the ones below it compare too.

I know this is a lot, just answer what you can or what you’d like to answer. This is a pretty difficult situation for me, so any help is appreciated.

2

First of all, what can you actually afford? If you do not know, talk to your parents about it, and run net price calculators on college web sites to compare.

Also remember that some of the schools you list do not have direct admission to the CS major, but you have to compete by college GPA (and possibly other things) to get into the CS major. Included are Virginia Tech, Texas A&M, and Purdue. Some other schools admit directly to the CS major, but may also admit to the school but not the CS major; entering the CS major later can be very competitive. See http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19262574/#Comment_19262574 .

As a non-resident of California, you are not eligible for the “if you get shut out of UCs, and you meet the top 9% statewide or in local context, you will be admitted to UC Merced” program.

3

Stony Brook is probably not a mainly commuter school (84% of frosh live on campus, and 60% overall live on campus), but it has a reputation for being a “suitcase” school, where students live on or near campus during the week, but many of them go back to their parents’ places on the weekends.

4

Binghamton and Buffalo have excellent CS programs and may be stronger in the field than some of the schools in your second paragraph and equal to some in your first. (Though keep researching Texas A&M.) Some LACs have excellent programs as well and might be worth exploring.

5

It’s not that I can’t afford the other schools, it’s just that it seems silly to spend tens of thousands of dollars more on a school that offers the same academic level of rigor.

6

You appear to be confused about ECs. They don’t necessitate that you join social clubs at all. Naturally surfing the net, playing video games, wasting your time googling nonsense, watching mindless youtubes or watching TV won’t be ECs that colleges view as valuable. But they are ECs. There are many ECs that colleges find valuable but that don’t require socializing. If you spent your spare time on useless time wasters, well then you are right, competitive colleges won’t view your activities as valuable. But don’t suggest that social anxiety is to blame for that! There is too much of a disability climate developing among young people who seem to think blaming psychological issues excuses almost anything.

GA Tech and UIUC are both top shelf CS schools not a bit beneath the ones you list above it. They are not less competitive.

You are correct that StonyBrook is “insanely” cheap thanks to NY tax payers, poor resources, retro salaries for staff, and a retro approach to academics at SUNYs. But that does not mean that " the only reason to go anywhere else is if their CS program was significantly better" because the entire experience at another school might be better. SUNYs are hopelessly behind the times although Stony Brook is probably the best of the university centers.

Virginia Tech is a far better school for CS and engineering. I am not saying VT attracts better students. Differentiate please. I am saying that it offers a better experience to the students who attend than does any SUNY. Anyone who has spent a week (maybe even a day) at each campus would have to agree. I would not look at VT as a safety in CS. You can’t simply infer from overall acceptance rates what the rate is for specific fields. But VT, Madison, Purdue… are all outstanding but will be both expensive and difficult to get into. You have not provided your credentials but they are competitive programs for CS. They will all provide a better education in CS and overall than sUNY-which (again) is not to say that the students are stronger. Just that the schools are better.

7

Btw, UCI, from what I’ve heard, tends to be somewhat of a suitcase school.

8

It’s probably best to ignore lostaccount whenever the SUNYs or WUSTL are mentioned.

9

Agreed - a lot of the SUNYs are good solid universities, and some are really great.

OP, do your parents make a lot of money and are they willing to shell out $60K+ a year? You named a bunch of public universities in states you are not a resident of. Those universities are not going to give a lot of aid to a nonresident student, especially if as you say your stats don’t put you at the top of the pack. There are some public universities that are well-known for giving out excellent aid to nonresident students but they’re not any of the ones you listed. (They tend to be public universities who otherwise would have a hard time attracting students to their unis, like Alabama and Iowa.)

Also, Long Island isn’t any less the real world than Blacksburg, West Lafayette, Irvine, Madison or College Station. It’s simply closer to where you grew up.

That said, Binghamton is also a great school, and the University at Buffalo has a good reputation in CS too.

There are also some middle ground universities that are less competitive than the likes of Caltech/MIT/Stanford but still have good reputations and good programs! What about a place like Boston U (29% acceptance rate), Northeastern (29%), Lehigh (30%), University of Rochester (35% - with an excellent computer science department); RPI (38% acceptance rate), Case Western (39%), WPI (44% acceptance rate), Syracuse (52%) or Rose-Hulman (62% acceptance rate)? You don’t have to go to the tippiest-top college in your particular field to do well, and frankly undergraduate ranking doesn’t really matter all that much. If you’re going to be truly miserable at Stony Brook - or you really want a better experience or to go far away from home - it might be better for you to go somewhere like Northeastern, Case Western or Lehigh - which may be ranked slightly lower in CS but will give you the kind of experience you want in undergrad.

10

Have you considered private colleges at all (such as the ones juillet mentions)?
Selective private schools generally offer much better need-based aid (and sometimes lower net costs) than OOS public universities do. Use their online net price calculators to compare costs.

I agree with lostaccount’s point above that a “significantly better” CS program wouldn’t necessarily be the only reason to choose an alternative. Furthermore, you may be over-estimating the quality differences among computer science programs (or the significance of those differences for post-graduate outcomes).

Consider these outcomes for recently graduated CS and math majors at Macalester College:
http://www.macalester.edu/academics/mscs/aftermac/
Does Macalester College have a big, highly ranked CS department? No.
However, it does offer good need-based aid, an out-of-state “college experience” you might like, a high concentration of smart & motivated students, and a higher level of student-faculty engagement than you’re likely to get at any big state university. CS course selection will be much smaller than at most big state universities … but how much does that matter if the courses it does offer are greater in number than you could possibly take, or possibly better taught than what you’d get in a huge, over-enrolled department at another school?

Your stats apparently are good enough for a school like Macalester. A lack of ECs might hold you back … but just from reading your post I get the impression you could put present a well-written, interesting set of essays that could (with strong LORs) be enough to compensate. Selective, private schools want smart, interesting, engaged students. A long list of ECs isn’t necessarily the only (or best) evidence.

A few other schools you might want to check out:
Reed College, Grinnell, Oberlin, Brandeis, URochester

11

Re: #10

For a comparison of the CS offerings at various smaller schools, see:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19190340/#Comment_19190340

12

RIT, not mentioned thus far, would also be worth a look.

Macalester’s CS offerings, discussed, could probably be exceeded by some of the LACs referenced in #11.

13

^ If you wanted another co-ed LAC, one about as selective as Macalester, that claims to cover 100% of demonstrated need and also is located in or near a city, then URichmond might be a good alternative. It does offer more CS courses than Mac does. I wouldn’t necessarily recommend it over Macalester only for that reason, but both are examples of options the OP might want to consider if he doesn’t find the SUNYs appealing.

14

People on this site are talking about various SUNY schools having “great reputations” and others have speculated that SUNY is as strong in computer science as schools listed in the OP’s first paragraph (MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, CMU, Caltech, UMich, etc.). My guess is that many writing about the great reputations have never seen the academic resources available to students at SUNY or places like MIT. It’s been suggested that you ignore me. Well, sure. If you have never seen the resources at these schools and prefer a discussion that puts computer science at a SUNY on par with MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, CMU, Caltech, UMich… well please don’t let me stand in your way. Just click your heels three times and say “premier university” three times and with a liter of whisky maybe it will come true.

15

@lostaccount : Most of my posts rely on some degree of (undergraduate specific) sourcing (cited often enough to be available). For example, Princeton Review lists Binghamton and Buffalo as “Great Schools for Computer Science Majors.” Beyond that, complementary posts based presumably on personal experience, such as yours, can serve to benefit the forum in ways that conventional sources cannot. If some posters seem to sense a personal antipathy toward the SUNYs in some of your comments, that observation, whether accurate or not, may simply serve to further balance the discussion.

16

FWIW, (and I have posted this a few times now) in my tech co with grads from CMU, NYU, BU and other private colleges, the 3 essential “geniuses” in the company are all grads of 3 different SUNY schools.

Also, a recent intern of ours was just accepted to CMU CS, largely on the strength of his portfolio of programming, hardware hacking and 3D rendering he submitted. He wasn’t very strong in ECs either as he was always at his PC. Do you have something like that you could put together?

17

This is reply to the post suggesting others to ignore my posts about SUNY.

People sometimes conflate what students bring to a university with what the university does for students. The intersection of the two is the climate created by the students of that university. And the climate impacts on a range of student and university factors. But, aside from the student climate, you can usually separate the factors into school factors (the experience the school provides to students and student (what students bring with them to the university) factors.

SUNY schools obviously attract strong NY residents who can attend the school for a price often not matched by other schools. That is a student factor-the strength of the student body- positive attributes that they bring to the school. I have no doubt that bright people graduate from SUNYs because some strong students attend SUNYs

If the question is which school graduates the smartest people, that is a different question than which computer science programs are strongest. When you ask which program is strongest, I assume you mean which program and/or school provides students with the best training, education and experience while they attend the school.

It is my opinion that the SUNY system does not provide students with training, education and experience that is similar to that which is provided by schools that are listed in the OP’s first paragraph.That is because the SUNY system has been strangled by 5 decades of poor, inconsistent and problematic funding. The result is that the campuses lack basic resources-- libraries lack seats and space, the academic buildings (not the student centers or admissions buildings) are dated and poorly equipped, there is a shortage of staff in key positions so students can’t access academic or career advisors without making appointments weeks in advance. This is not an anti-SUNY sentiment. This is the reality. For students who find the social aspects of college the most important factor, these issue may not matter at all. They may be more relevant for those who place a premium on the academic aspects.

Nearly 50 years ago (late 1960’s), the smallest of the current SUNY universities had 4,000 students and 395 teaching (PhD level) faculty members. They projected a maximum of 10,000 students for the future. They advertised a 13:1 Student:(teaching)faculty ratio. The president rejected the idea that the university would ever grow beyond 10K. Enrollment reached 10K in 1978. At that time there were 450 full time teaching faculty members. In the last academic year, enrollment was 16,695 with goals to reach 20K by 2020. There are approximately 665 full time teaching faculty for a student:faculty ratio of 25.10: 1. Academic departments have grown very little and support staff even less so. At the same time, academic buildings, intended to be built decades ago, weren’t. The result is a campus busting at the seams.

That does not mean that graduates from SUNY will be weaker workers or weaker coders compared to those trained in those other schools. But if you ask about the experience, these factors are relevant. And to anticipate…yes this may be true about other schools in other states too.

18

What evidence do you have? It’s not that I necessarily disbelieve you, it’s just that when someone says this almost every time a specific school comes up without providing any backing information (even anecdotal experience, even if it’s “I visited…”), it starts to sound more like a vendetta. Besides, I don’t think anyone was arguing that the CS education and reputation at Stony Brook, Binghamton, or Buffalo was equivalent to that of Stanford, MIT, or CMU. The statement was simply that they are far more affordable and less selective than those schools. The OP is worried about being able to compete for admission at the tippy-top schools, so alternative suggestions were provided.

Which one are you talking about? The smallest of the current SUNY four-year institutions is the College at Old Westbury, which was founded in 1965 and has an enrollment of 4,315 undergraduates. The student to faculty ratio is 18:1 - quite a bit high for a liberal arts college-style environment, which Old Westbury purports to offer, but not out of line with the average public university (Berkeley’s, UVa’s, UW’s, UCLA’s, Michigan’s). The only SUNY comprehensive colleges with an enrollment of over 10,000 are Buffalo State College (10,661 undergrads; 16:1 ratio) and Empire State College, which is a sort of non-traditional multi-site university aimed at non-traditional, professional, and distance learning students.

If you’re talking about the doctoral universities (excluding the special interest ones like the College of Optometry or Downstate Medical Center), the smallest one is Binghamton, with a undergraduate student body of 13,518 (total just over 16,000) and a student to faculty ratio of 20:1. A little bit higher - certainly not a small liberal arts campus environment - but again, not terribly out of line for a public university. University at Albany’s is 18:1; Stony Brook’s is 16:1 and University at Buffalo’s is 13:1.

I’m assuming you’re talking about Binghamton because the total enrollment and faculty numbers I found are closest to what you posted, and if you take the entire student body (undergrad and grad) and divide only full-time faculty members, you do get something over 25:1. However, that’s not the way anyone calculates student to faculty ratio. For example, Berkeley has 1522 full-time faculty and 38,204 students, making their full-time faculty to student ratio also about 25:1, although their reported ratio is 18:1 because they include part-time instructors as well.

As a side note, I’ll point out that a lot of powerhouse universities - including the entire UC system and the University of Wisconsin system - are plagued by problematic funding. They still have reputations as great universities.

19

As noted, other schools may have some of these problems. Right now there are problems with a mismatch between resources available and number of students attending the smallest of the 4 university centers. The World University Times ratings use only teaching faculty in their ratios-and that is how they calculate them-exactly as I did. Many of the faculty members included when you end up with the 20:1 ratio don’t teach any classes. Most only teach 1-3 a year. But those are included. I don’t think it makes much sense to include faculty members who don’t teach,( sometimes are not even on the campus) if you are trying to figure out resources available to students. In terms of evidence, the evidence is in the numbers, articles about problems accessing resources, etc. But I am not here to prove anything.

You are free to disregard what I say. I am one of the most knowledgable people on this site about the SUNY system. I know it better than the back of my hand. If you prefer thinking that SUNY is similar to the schools listed by the OP in the first paragraph of this thread, you are free to think that.

I have no vendetta but I am not hired by SUNY PR either. If the readers would prefer the university’s PR messages to accurate information, that is the reader’s choice. But if the public is complacent with what is happening at SUNY it will not improve. At one campus they are determined to have as efficient a program as possible which means as little support and as many students as they can stuff on to the campus. They plan 20K students by 2020 without corresponding increases in staff, faculty or resources. It does not take a genius to figure out what will happen with that. I think SUNY attracts good students and it is about as inexpensive as could be. But it is my opinion that the academic experience students get is problematic right now. I’m not saying students don’t like the school. I am talking only about the academic experience that they get.

20

“As a side note, I’ll point out that a lot of powerhouse universities - including the entire UC system and the University of Wisconsin system - are plagued by problematic funding. They still have reputations as great universities.”

Yes they have the reputation as great universities while SUNY does not.