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<p>Well, they did qualify: “Doctor,” in a medical setting", nothing about social etiquette. Maybe they’re just trying to prevent doctors of philosophy walking into a hospital room and saying “I’m Dr. X, take off all of your clothes” (though I guess it would be OK for dentists and podiatrists ;)).</p>
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Well I’ve heard of a dentist taking off a patient’s clothes while their under the gas, but I doubt (hope) they’re not a dentist anymore… </p>
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This makes no sense. See my earlier post, but obviously one shouldn’t do things they’re not qualified to do regardless of what their specialty is (be that a PhD pretending they’re a general physician or a general physician pretending they’re a surgeon). The problem, if there was one, would not be with someone using a title but pretending to be someone they’re not.</p>
<p>Seriously, it does seem that they are trying to prevent confusion among patients in a medical setting only.</p>
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Absolutely, I wasn’t trying to imply that they were trying have it applied elsewhere. I’m just pointing out that there are situations in a medical setting where people with doctorates, but not MDs, are present. From my understanding of such policies it’s mainly a shot fired at nurses, chiropractors, psychologists (e.g. Dr Phil) and the like and not so much PhDs in general. That sort of specialty and degree infighting has been going on for ages (for example the whole previous issue with DOs being viewed as less of a physician than MDs although they finally called a truce on that). </p>
<p>The big research hospital near us refers to the PhDs there (e.g. in the non-clincal research wings) as Dr. in publications and around the hospital (their lab coats say PhD and physician’s lab coats say MD).</p>
<p>And let us please remember that AMA Resolutions are binding on no one but the AMA.</p>
<p>LOL-- we are starting to talk about the same stuff all over again.The AMA bill was dicussed in posts #15, 19, 22, etc. Their original intent was directed at the Ph.D. nurses, but it would have far reaching implications for other healthcare providers- scope of practice, reimbursement, etc. in a “medical setting”. A “medical setting” isn’t just a hospital. Clinics, pivate offices, etc are all “medical settings”. It looks to me like a turf war, and is ludicrous. There is simply no need to try to restrict the terms “dr” or “resident” or even “intern” (they left that one out, I believe-- maybe to save it for another battle??) They arent trying to “prevent confusion”- they are trying to restrict practice.</p>
<p>It’s more a shot at the <em>newer</em> doctoral degrees that are just now being established, from what I can tell. Some nursing schools are developing PhD programs and residency programs of their own, and I’d be a little wary of someone from a not-tried-and-true doctoral degree program that’s walking around a hospital, being referred to as a medical (pause) doctor, even though they’re not a medical doctor (no pause). I can understand that they’d be concerned about these newer programs (or less familiar… they gave the indication that they’re newer programs, but I’m not sure that they are, necessarily). Newer and niche curricula tend to be less regulated.</p>
<p>But sure, it’s a dig at people who get their doctorates from these programs. Probably a little unfair, but I can see their point.</p>
<p>aibarr-</p>
<p>No one can call themselves anything in a hospital setting if they dont get hospital priviledges, and I suspect this AMA bill was a segue into trying to change the wording of staff priviledges at hospitals, which might then restrict who could practice independently and who had to practice or admit to a hospital under an other independent practitioner. I am sure that the folks reviewing the credentials of people applying fopr staff priviledges are far more wary of their degree, training, etc than the average patient. Credentialling committees are a tough group.</p>
<p>The doctor/nurse “wars” have been going on a long time. I don’t know how new something has to be to be called new, but several of my classmates from the Pitt nursing class of 1980 went on to get their PhDs right away. They were emphatic themselves that they were not “little MDs.” The explanation was that medical doctors focus on disease, and nurses focus on patient care. As a former nurse myself, I sometimes have felt that *some *doctors would have preferred to limit my ilk to bed-making and bedpans.</p>
<p>Obviously this (and I do see it was discussed a bit earlier in the thread already ) is no bearing on what goes on outside of a medical setting!</p>
<p>^^^ Can you clarify roshke? Are you referring to the fact that we can’t seem to figure out, or agree upon when to use the “dr” title in social situations?</p>
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I would disagree. Although the wording of their ‘resolution’ talks about a medical setting, this sort of infighting amongst the medical community over titles and nomenclature has the unintended consequence of further perpetuating the false notion that an MD is a Dr. but a doctor without an MD isn’t a Dr… </p>
<p>Throughout history the medical profession as a whole has always had a bit of a chip on its shoulder regarding ‘status’ and self-promotion of titles (it started with copying the academic title Dr in the first place, and such current AMA proposals represent similar behavior today)… so I suppose such proposals shouldn’t come as a surprise. </p>
<p>We see such unintended concequences reflected in the etiquette advice that some have linked to. These ‘guides’ aren’t suggesting that an MD is Dr. but a PhD isn’t because that’s factually correct (as we’ve already seen, it isn’t and if anything the opposite is true), but because the medical profession is far far more uptight about wanting to be addressed by such titles. As a field they make a much bigger deal about it, but that doesn’t mean that other fields that are more humble about the whole thing are any less entitled to it (which is the fallacy that is inferred in some of this etiquette advice).</p>
<p>I was at my docs today for a bone scan. I was left in a room alone to change, and saw that by the phone there was a list of extensions for everyone who worked there. A long list of first names - all female - including the PA, various nurses, technicians, and office staff. Tucked in the middle was the only male and only MD, “Dr. LastName.” No idea of the degrees anyone else holds, since they had no honorific or initials attached, or last names.</p>
<p>My doc is a nice guy - I like him. But I suspect he is either a bit arrogant or a bit sexist.</p>
<p>The AMA resolution, even if passed, would not mean anything to a PhD in history who goes by Dr. Doe professionally or extend to the issues of social convention that we’ve been discussing. I do understand the concern for the broader consequences , which is what I meant when I said that people would react to such a resolution. But I can also appreciate a hospital or doctor’s concern for their very real liability issues. To be honest ,though, I haven’t read enough about the issue or the potential for the impact of such a resolution on PhD professionals who work in various medical settings, to have a fully informed opinion.</p>
<p>Roshke-
The AMA isn’t interested in (ie doesnt give a hoot about) restricting the title of non-medical personnel. It is a turf issue.</p>
<p>** Sorry for being so blunt, and don’t mean to offend any of my MD cc buds. I’d be interested in hearing how the MDs here feel about the resolution… Anyone???</p>
<p>And binx-
Interesting observation in your Drs office. I would guess that if there were male techs there, theyd’ also have gone by their first names, but … we’ll never know…</p>
<p>Is binx hinting a federal lawsuit could soon be pending against the Doc? Has Doctor unfairly discriminated against hiring male staffers? <em>wink symbol</em></p>
<p>younghoss – a ; plus a ) equals ;)</p>
<p>As someone who holds both degrees but does not practice medicine, I always say no when someone asks whether I am a doctor or addresses me with that tilte.</p>
<p>I sincerely hope you all know that Roger Dooley will allow anyone who reaches 20,000 posts on College Confidential to change his or her title to CC Doctor. Now that IS one heck of a title and will surely impress your friends and restaurants’ hostesses.</p>
<p>Carry on … you are almost there.</p>