Who's Going to Help with Grad School Apps?

Northstarmom · February 14, 2007, 3:15pm

"For the record, I believe in research and I don’t expect anyone to do it for me. However, there are many things I DO NOT know. How do I look at choices such as law school, business school, and others without having a clue about what those careers mean? My parents --through many friends-- have a much better idea about … jobs. Will the career center talk about how many people switched careers after a few years? How many lawyers are there who never practiced law? What is the value of a Master’s in Philosophy? Will I be able to feed a family with a degree in History? "

But, all of that info is widely available. Just because one is an adult or a parent doesn’t mean that one is knowledgeable about all of the things that you mention. Most adults mainly have friends in their own fields anyway. It’s not as if one’s parents are surrounded by people who can probably offer expert help with the kind of questions that you raise. Indeed, most college students would be in a better position to find such experts than are their parents. College students have easy access to professors who are experts in things including careers, to a career center with experts and college students also can easily connect with alum who are experts.

I see adults’ jobs as teaching our kids how to get the info to check out their career and other dreams. By the time our offspring are adults, they should be able go figure out lots of these things by themselves.There also is so much info available on the Internet that it’s relatively simple to find out lots of solid research-based info about careers, majors, professional school, etc.

When I was in h.s. and thought that I wanted to be a college political sci prof, my mother, who worked on a college campus, arranged for me to meet with a political science prof and sit in his class to see what he did.

From that I learned info that helped me later when I was a college senior considering a journalism career. I saw a flyer about an out of state journalism conference for students, and i used my work study money to go there. I also talked with the professionals there to learn about how to make it in that career including about what grad schools were best and whether grad school was necessary. I was a relatively shy person who was from a small town, but I was interested enough in the career that I did what it took to find out info.

One’s campus career office can put one in contact with alum in various fields. One also can ask professors for contacts.

I can imagine asking someone whom I happen to know or meet about career info for a college student offspring who’s interested in that career. I can’t, however, see me spending lots of time to find such people or to research the career. That’s what my kid should be doing because it would be his career.

Similarly, cost of living info is very available on the Net. Our kids grew up with the Net and most probably know how to use it to research better than their parents know this info.

I can imagine that a young person may not be aware of how important the cost of living is when considering what job to accept or where to move to. However, once that is explained to the young person, they should be able to get the cost of living info by the Internet.

I can see a parent offering general guidance such as letting a student know that before going to grad school, it could be a good idea to check out what kind of jobs students get who come out of that grad school in that major. If a student wants to enter a certain career, a parent could advise the student to see what the salaries are and job options are: Will those allow the student to have the lifestyle that the student wants? Are the job options things that the student might enjoy doing?

I also think that for most students it’s best to take some time off between college and grad or professional school. That time off allows the student to learn more about the work world, themselves, and what it means to have a career. Such a student will be much more insightful if s/he decides to get more education. Such a student also is less likely to waste their time or money on a career/education that seemed perfect in their fantasies, but is not a good fit in reality.

marite · February 14, 2007, 3:17pm

Xiggi:

You are absolutely right that parents ought to be involved in their children’s career decisions since they have a great deal of experience with the world of work. But it is a conversation that ought to begin well before senior year–just as getting ready for college ought to begin well before fall of senior year. For example, parents can remind their children about different types of courses to take; summer jobs or internships they could perform, etc…
Much of the application process happens during the fall of senior year when students are away from home (unlike the college application process) which is why I posted the list of tips. But office of career services and other advising staff should provide guidance and reminders as well.

When my S went to orientation, he found that there was a separate session for prospective pre-med students. I know that each of the Harvard House has pre-law and pre-med advisors; in my S’s House, there is someone as well who advises math and comp sci students; as well as a biology advisor, There are doubtless advisors for other fields also that I am not aware of.

Northstarmom · February 14, 2007, 3:28pm

One of the best things that parents can do to help their kids learn about careers is to insist that their kids get summer jobs. Such jobs help people learn about the difference between fantasies and reality when it comes to professions.

I see a lot of students who are allowed to spend the summer playing, not doing any kind of job. Such students are at a disadvantage when it comes to getting jobs after graduation (Often companies prefer to hire as permanent employees people who have interned for them. Often those internships leading to jobs are the ones after college graduation, but to get those internships, one has to have had some kind of job or internship after junior year).

The other thing that parents can do starting from the time that students are in middle school is to strongly encourage students to pursue ECs that relate to the students’ interests. The student will learn a lot about their strengths, talents and about potential careers, and also may gain marketable skills.

The parents who let their students laze around for the summer and skip ECs because the students would prefer to be couch potatos aren’t doing their students any favors.

IMO if a parent does the things that I’m suggesting, by the time the student is a college senior, they should be very well equipped to make a thoughtful decision about their post graduation activities.

curmudgeon · February 14, 2007, 3:29pm

1sokkermom, the short(er) version is : No. I didn’t make that decision. I have admitted on the board that even though Yale was $48K over Fafsa, and $40k over budget, I offered Yale (and Amherst) up to D. It most likely would have involved the sale of part of the ranch (which is our home and major retirement vehicle which would have messed need based up the next year and probably cost us even more). She had made her reservations at Bulldog Days. She gets the Bellingrath. She declines the visits and admission to Amherst and Yale. She also canceled a vist to UMiami which had given her the I.B.Singer. I made her wait a week before sending in her Rhodes acceptance.

Edit: She made the call. She never looks back. I often do.

xiggi · February 14, 2007, 3:35pm

NSMom and Marite, I don’t disagree with any of your points, and my post was not meant to be a rebuttal.

On a personal level, I feel that the ultimate responsibility for my choices falls on my shoulders -just as it was for the undergraduate process. I assume that where we differ a bit is that I warmly welcome --and value-- the parental involvement. I also understand that the availability and correctness of information is MUCH more prevalent at a college than it was at the high school level where lack of competence reigns supreme.

1sokkermom · February 14, 2007, 3:35pm

^ That makes sense. She sounds like a great kid, and a wise one!

curmudgeon · February 14, 2007, 3:46pm

Jeez, 1sokkermom, I left out THE salient point. After receiving the Bellingrath D asked me if I would pay what we had budgeted for UG to her med school bills. I said yes. THEN she decided to take it. LOL. As I’ve said many times, the kid is …uhhh…“motivated to succeed”.

1sokkermom · February 14, 2007, 3:52pm

Not so sure S is quite so motivated. ;)

He is dating a pre-med woman who is. Does that count? ( She is currently studying for the MCATS.) We have no idea what he is doing… :o

We have tried to offer “advice”. He’s at the stage where he doesn’t want to listen. This too shall pass…

Now for little sis. She’s a different story altogether!

curmudgeon · February 14, 2007, 4:17pm

Completely OT folks , sorry.

1sokkermom, “motivated to succeed”.

I was downplaying for effect. DW and I sleep with a knife in our teeth when D is home. :eek: We try not to get between her and her goals. ;)

Northstarmom · February 14, 2007, 4:27pm

"On a personal level, I feel that the ultimate responsibility for my choices falls on my shoulders -just as it was for the undergraduate process. I assume that where we differ a bit is that I warmly welcome --and value-- the parental involvement. "

I guess you’re right. It’s all a matter of perspective and experience.

I didn’t welcome my mother’s input into graduate school, jobs and things like that because well meaning though she was, the things that she wanted me to do were not things that I wanted to do. She had a habit of confusing my desires with her own.

My mother never got over my deciding when i was 13 that I didn’t want to be a doctor! And she never got over the fact that I stopped taking piano lessons at age 17 after 12 of studying. I was OK, not great, but she thought I could be a concert pianist!

She thought my husband was beneath me (We’ve now been married happily for 28 years).
She thought my choice of careers were beneath me.

I got a doctorate, and a few years later, my mom suggested that I go to law school!

When I applied to college and didn’t show her my application, she had me in tears because I put the stamp on the envelop upside down. My mom insisted that would cause me to be rejected.

My mom was loving, well meaning and very informed about a lot of career and academic things, but I found it best to rely on my own research because the choices that she thought were best for me were choices that would have made her happy, but me miserable.

Consequently, I have tried very hard to be tough when it came to having kids explore paths that matched their apparent interests and passions while I have tried hard to let them select their interests and passions.

curmudgeon · February 14, 2007, 4:39pm

Because of our family dynamics, until that moment I had never thought of this topic from that angle. LOL. I’d have been just like you, NSM. Wait…I was just like you. ;)

1sokkermom · February 14, 2007, 4:41pm

Northstarmom,

That is one of the best posts I have ever read. I think that many of us are too much like your Mom than we would ever care to admit. At least I’m sure many of our kids think so. Thanks for putting things in perspective.

Eventually we have to let them fly on their own. At some point the decisions that they make will be completely their own. We will just have to learn to accept that. (and be happy for them!) :eek:

xiggi · February 14, 2007, 5:16pm

NSMom, your post makes perfect sense. Also, I wanted to add that my sentence could be interpreted differently from what I wanted to say. I should have written something such as “I assume that where we differ a bit is that I have been in a position to warmly welcome --and value-- the parental involvement.”

It is because of my parents’ approach in guiding me as opposed to directing me vicariously that I welcome their input. Different circumstances would have yielded different results.

dstark · February 14, 2007, 6:27pm

Northstarmom wrote, “My mom was loving, well meaning and very informed about a lot of career and academic things, but I found it best to rely on my own research because the choices that she thought were best for me were choices that would have made her happy, but me miserable.”

I really like Northstarmom’s paragraph.

As the kids get older, I want to have less and less input, which is good, because they want me to give less and less input. :)

As parents, we go from managers, to consultants, to fans.

I want to be a fan. I want to watch. I want to yell, scream and support.
I don’t want to play. I want the kids to play.

I’m going to sit in the stands and eat some malted milk balls. I know what I’m going to watch will have successes and failures. I hope I can handle that as well as the kids can. I hope I’m not one of those fans that runs on to the field and gets in fights with the players. :)

yulsie · February 14, 2007, 6:32pm

…to each according to his need.

That’s how I view a family. Curmudgeon, If you are a researching guru who is ACE at tracking down every important detail, it is totally appropriate for you to get your shiny red Ferrari out and race down the track to the finish line, dodging every grey Volvo wagon along the way and leaving the minivans and SUVs entirely in the dust.

Or, as Ursula said to Ariel in The Little Mermaid, “Darling, it’s what I DO - it’s what I LIVE for!”

Solidarity. And just by the way, is your daughter immature? Should we just brand her that way and call it a day? (You are on a ranch, n’est-ce pas?) ;)

hayden · February 14, 2007, 8:05pm

This is OT, but it sounds like some of you might recognize this scenario !

So my D was working her after school job behind a cash register when the parent of her brother’s friend came in. “How’s Jim [not real name ] ? He still interested in going to law school? When’s he taking the LSAT’s ?”

D comes home that night. “Mom, did we know Jim wanted to be a lawyer?”

“No, dear. What makes you think he wants to go to law school?”

As you can guess, it appears that S’s friends, and all their parents, knew he wanted to be an attorney, and he had never mentioned it to his own family. So now he’s going to law school. He got accepted in December, and it’s a darn good thing because I’m going to need someone to defend me when I strangle him. Oh, wait, that won’t work . . .

curmudgeon · February 14, 2007, 9:18pm

Brand away! The Immatures. With a scarlet “I”. Our parental badge of shame. She’ll wear it proudly, and so will I.

anxiousmom · February 14, 2007, 9:53pm

I was 27, married and a mother, when my mom took my husband and I (both working low-paying health food store jobs), out to dinner and suggested that we go to grad school in her field. Thank goodness we listened to her, otherwise we would probably still be washing vegetables…
We may be doing a little suggesting if DD finds herself in similar straits! ;)

Who's Going to Help with Grad School Apps?

CONNECT WITH US