<p>This is a direct result of the “say it here cuz you can’t say it directly” thread.</p>
<p>Why CAN’T we say what needs to be said to those who have hurt or disrespected us? It seems to me that people have no trouble telling those who are soft-spoken or kind-hearted if what they said hurt them. But the same people WOULDN’T DARE tell someone who is a stronger personality how they really feel. </p>
<p>It makes me mad because those who are louder, meaner, nastier, get away with hurting and offending others because everyone is afraid of the backlash they might get if they tell them how they really feel. So, instead, they write their feelings in the thread AND DON’T TELL THE PERSON.</p>
<p>As a result, the nasty, offensive types end up feeling very well-liked because nobody puts them in their place and people “yes” them all the time, while the “nice guy” ends up feeling beat up and put down!</p>
<p>You may have it backwards. Outspoken people like myself get frustrated with people who are liked despite not telling their real feelings. Those of us who are not afraid to “tell it like it is” are not popular. You are telling me I’m loud, mean, nasty… because I would rather tell the truth instead of sugarcoating/disguising it to avoid the appearances of ever saying something negative. People shun people who say anything they may know is true but that they don’t want to hear. The recourse is to vent on the forum. Instead of hurting someone’s feelings people anonymously get their thoughts out instead of holding them in or releasing them on someone they have to deal with again.</p>
<p>Do you want me to tell you to your face how wrong I think you are in this post? Do you think I’m a nasty person for being honest with you? Etc. Saying what I really feel never seems to make me liked.</p>
<p>Interesting post. I LOVE that thread. I think of myself as pretty straightforward and don’t hesitate to say what I think in most instances. However, because of social conventions I can’t really tell a colleague/dh/friend/principal that I think they are a royal <strong><em>-up like I can on that thread. I will, however, politely tell them how they have </em></strong> up. For me, the thread is a quick, cathartic release before I go about addressing whatever situation I’m speaking of.</p>
<p>I do think you’re right, however, that meaner, nastier people get away with a lot because people are either 1) afraid to confront them, or 2) just ignore their antics because they don’t want to waste time on some malcontent.</p>
<p>The “say it here” thread was started in part because there are people we don’t have the opportunity to speak to (ie the jerk who cut us off in traffic) or because it would be wiser not to speak and provoke an obnoxious stranger, or because sometimes we just need to yell I TOLD YOU SO but people never want to hear that and it’s almost never helpful.</p>
<p>Venting can be very helpful to the ventor, regardless of whether the ventee ever hears it or not.</p>
<p>There is a thing called TACT that is a valuable skill to have. We can be truthful without being rude. And sometimes the other person really doesn’t need to know my opinion. They haven’t asked, and it’s not really my business - or they’re going to do what they’re going to do anyway. Some thoughts are best kept to oneself… or vented on an internet forum ;)</p>
<p>I can’t disagree about people avoiding those who come off as mean and nasty but I think, a lot of times, it’s simply not worth it to say certain things to people.</p>
<p>For example, a close friend gave her twin 8 years iphones for Christmas. We were together at Christmas and the kids were waving them in our faces. I thought it was one of the most idiotic things I’ve seen a parent do (just IMHO). It was clearly about money and prestige. BUT for me to have said something would have been just as stupid. No one wants to be told they are wrong and truthfully, it probably wasn’t my place to say anything. So that’s why saying on the other thread is brilliant. It gets it out without damaging a relationship. Counselors recommend this all the time. Write it to the person but don’t send the letter.</p>
<p>OTOH, we all have a right to set boundaries and let people know when they have overstepped those boundaries or have otherwise hurt us.</p>
<p>I agree people often get offended with those who are more straight-forward in what they say to people. I generally like people who are straight-forward because you always know where you stand with them…within reason. Some people feel they have a duty to point out other people’s mistakes, weakness or other character flaws all the time and that can be hard to be around. No one wants to feel criticized all the time. It’s all about picking your battles and understanding that, many times, it’s only your opinion, not a fact.</p>
<p>Sometimes, the reason for not saying what we feel is that all it would do is create bad feelings – without accomplishing anything.</p>
<p>I had a boss for three years who was a pleasure to work for 90 percent of the time. But about 10 percent of the time – whenever she was under a lot of pressure – she was a disaster. At those times, she was difficult to get along with and unprofessional. But I don’t think this is something she could change. It was an intrinsic part of her personality.</p>
<p>There were many times when I would have liked to say things like, “It really bothered me yesterday when you screamed at me for turning in my deliverable on time because you resented having to review it when you were facing a tight deadline on another project.” </p>
<p>I think the popularity of the “say it here” thread (I love it too, YDS!) is partly because it’s so satisfying to tell someone off in spades, with no consideration whatsoever for their feelings or what onlookers would think or whether we’re setting a good example for our children in how to solve conflicts, etc. It’s sheer fantasy. Most of us would never do that in real life because we know we’re not supposed to be rude, or we don’t want to be fired, or we don’t want to have to live with the consequences of making an uncensored statement for the rest of our lives. If my MIL read some of what I’ve vented about in that thread, the results would be dire and affect every member of the family. This way, I can blow off steam without having to pay the price. It’s therapeutic. :)</p>
<p>Well, most ‘outspoken’ people don’t seem to realize that they may be honest but are not necessarily telling the truth.</p>
<p>For example, “You are ugly and your children are stupid” may be their honest opinion. But “truth” is more complicated, and nicer people may honestly see a different and more generous interpretation.</p>
<p>And funny, ‘outspoken’ people usually get offended if someone says to them ‘you are a loud obnoxious boor and I don’t like you’.</p>
<p>That is so true, sorghum, that outspoken people get offended if someone has the courage to tell them how loud, obnoxious and disliked they are. </p>
<p>It’s as though the loud ones feel that they have a right to say whatever they want to others, even when it is hurtful, but THEY DO NOT LIKE IT OR TOLERATE IT when someone tells them how they feel.,which brings me back to my first point that LOUD NASTY ONES GET AWAY WITH SO MUCH because most people do not want to take a chance of offending them.</p>
<p>I am soft spoken, and I often feel my quiet voice is not really the “true me”, but if I raise my voice, I sound angry. I hate that. As a result, I’m more comfortable writing that speaking to a large crowd. Just like, when I look in the mirror, I’m surprised that’s me. </p>
<p>Last week, my son had a friend over who is really, really LOUD and throughout the evening when he was here, it sounded as if he barks. I mean, he’d bark out loud noise for attention. Eh? It seems to be his attempt to get the girls in the room to notice him. I found him truly, truly annoying, but my son tells me that he is very popular, especially with the girls. What do I know? I’m not an 18 yo college freshman any longer.</p>
<p>Because it violates social norms and feels awkward, and possibly causes conflict, which feels unpleasant and is usually difficult to resolve.</p>
<p>Because it is likely to impair the relationship going forward and if we value those relationships, it is a loss for us.</p>
<p>Because it may make you disliked and without relationships, which are important to most of us. </p>
<p>While it may feel good to do so, it likely does not create any actual change to make it worthwhile. This is because people have different viewpoints and most people have lots of defense mechanisms. Just because you give someone honest feedback does not a) mean the feedback is accurate and useful, nor that b) the feedback will be accepted, internalized and lead to behavioral change. </p>
<p>Anyone see The Invention of Lying? Fun movie, and it addresses this very issue.</p>
<p>I always say what I really feel unless it would hurt myself or someone else unnecessarily. I may think of really unkind comments, but most people don’t deserve vitriol aimed at them and to say something just for the sake of saying it isn’t my style.</p>
<p>Because we haven’t learned to do it right, without being unnecessarily hurtful. To use “I” statements instead of “you” statements (“I feel that. . .” rather than “you always . . .”). To really ask ourselves our motives for speaking out and what we hope to accomplish.<br>
Because women, especially, think they are going to shrivel up and die if they have displeased someone or if everyone doesn’t like them.</p>
<p>All my life I tended to speak the truth. with kindness though. Some things were better left unsaid. I was like the kid in the story who said “but he is naked” I found this did not get me anywhere, I wasnt liked, andnothing changed. In my old age, I try to keep my mouth shut and choose my battles. It is interesting, though at work, things I have always said, are more and more accepted as truth, but people just didnt “talk” about it. I am always ahead of my time. LOL
I love the thread, sometimes I just read it and see that others have the same perspective, or to get another perspective, or to vent.
Now I am thinking about that idea of truth, good point sorghum.
I think it also depends on what culture you come form, what area of the country, world.</p>
<p>It’s funny because the older I’ve gotten, the more I say what’s on my mind. It’s possible to tell people exactly what you think without having a throwdown. There’s a secret to it … smile with your mouth but keep your eyes deadly serious. What comes out of my mouth is usually much kinder than what’s running through my head, so it’s a good thing I don’t know any mind readers.</p>
<p>Most people interpret any indication that someone doesn’t agree with them or their actions as equivalent to not liking/respecting/appreciating them. It’s silly, in my opinion, but very few people seem to have the ability to graciously accept criticism or dissent. </p>
<p>I relate to downtoearth. I’ve tended to be the intimidating one who talked about the elephant in the room. Trust me, that didn’t endear me to anyone. However, lately I’ve had the experience of having some folks come back to me and tell me how glad they were I said what I said and tell me what changed months later because of it, or that they eventually realized I was right when things didn’t turn out well doing it their way. </p>
<p>Now I try to keep my mouth shut more if I can. I can’t always, unfortunately, and my mouth brings me trouble. With school personnel, when a concern is brought to their attention, they seem to have an MO of immediately retaliating by finding some random fault in me or my child. I’ve learned that throwing the ball of responsibility right back at them, however aggressive that makes me seem, is nonetheless effective. Sometimes a negative reaction to words of truth is not only a defense mechanism, it’s a lazy resistance to positive change. Sometimes some “force” is necessary to earn respect and get results.</p>
<p>When someone/something angers me, I just ask myself if this situation will really matter in 10 years. I call it my “10 year plan”. Will I really care in 10 years about the stupid person in the express line with too many items? Will I even remember it a week later? If not, I keep my mouth shut. (It works well for my marriage, also.)</p>
<p>Also, before speaking, ask yourself: Is it true? Is it helpful? Is it kind?</p>
<p>I think you can say what you want to many people, but you must be aware of the consequences to you, and if they will be bad consequences, many times it is better to keep quiet. All the things said above about tact and appropriateness are very important. If you must speak, never do so when you are angry, as most of your message will be lost. It is only worth dealing with the loud and nasty if you will gain from your interchange - i.e. relatives or coworkers whom you must deal with over and over.</p>
<p>I would never mouth off to loud nasty strangers, as there are too many incidents of assault or worse (e.g. road rage.) </p>
<p>I have spoken up on a number of occasions when I felt a great injustice was taking place, and that I should try to correct it, even though it would not affect me personally. Usually, it did not help, but at least I could have a clear conscience that I did my best to right a wrong. In one instance, although I could not change the result, I did hear from many people that they were happy that I spoke up. Even this has to be done with a clear view to the consequences. The people who were criticized in this instance did not appreciate it at all, and changed not a whit, and were no longer interested in ever hearing from me again.</p>
<p>We have an in law who is horrid, just mean & nasty to everyone from a waiter to a health professional to old friends to family, but he does not really “get it” and over the past 30 years, many times I would call him on it. I might get satisfaction at the moment for voicing my feelings, but rarely did I win the war. He is still rude & self-centered and is not going to change, friends that have known him for 40-50 years have asked me how we could stand it.</p>
<p>I have come to the point where I only say things if I can come up with a way to have him actually hear what I am saying- can I phrase it in a way that he will actually internalise? I learned this when doing school district contract negotiations, to really negotiate, you cannot just say your most extreme feelings and wants, you must find a way to understand what each side wants and reflect that back to them, help them feel hear and understood. Once they feel understood, they can relax a bit and actually listen.</p>
<p>Same for friends and family, but is it worth it? This guy I mentioned is a jerk, most people I know think so and have told me so, he is not going to change and it is not worth my time to try to help. Sometimes when i hear him rant and rave about the same things, year after year, I feel the same way as the OP, I’d like to put him in his place and sometimes I do, but I know he just does not and will not listen so I mainly try to remain sane by not buying in to his issues.</p>
<p>So, for something that is really frustrating, why put all your time and energy into telling the person how it is or how it should be if they will not change? Why bother? But, yeah, I, too, get annoyed with the way he dominates everyone and everything and mainly choose to deal with it by avoiding being in his presence</p>