<p>I’m just wondering why is it okay for Asian parents to say it bluntly to their kids that they gained some weight, even if they are not overweight or obese? My dad keeps telling me to lose weight, even though I am not really overweight and said that no one would hire me for a job if I don’t lose weight. He said appearance is the most IMPORTANT thing in a job candidate when looking for a job at an interview. Is this a cultural thing for Asian parents to say to their kids?</p>
<p>It may be, not sure. But I do know it is wrong. If you are not fat, then obviously he is using a different standard than the rest of us. Appearance is not the most important thing in an interview, unless, of course, you are a model.</p>
<p>The parents may be immigrants from a place where (a) people are generally much thinner than in the US, and (b) personal appearance may be more heavily (and openly) used as a means of differentiating between job candidates. Also, lines of work where actual skills and ability to do the job are not as easily measurable, or where the number of candidates who meet the skill and ability standards for the job is large relative to the number of jobs available, are probably more likely to be places where discrimination on the basis of something other than job-relevant skills and abilities occurs.</p>
<p>Or the parents may be the kind of dysfunctional tiger parents for whom their kids will never be good enough, so they always have to have something to criticize, whether or not the criticisms or expectations are realistic.</p>
<p>Regarding “places where people are generally much thinner than in the US”, note that a public health initiative in Japan suggests than men with a waistline > 85cm (33.5") need to reduce body fat. 85cm is under the 15th percentile for US men (i.e. over 85% of US men would be “fat” by Japanese standards).</p>
<p>"Is this a cultural thing for Asian parents to say to their kids? " No. You’re father is sadly, simply holds an idiotic notion and is equally stupid enough to mouth it w/o regard to its harm and insult. I wouldn’t blame the culture.</p>
<p>The title to this thread is a HUGE overgeneralization. HUGE. </p>
<p>@ucbalumnus, Most US men don’t have Japanese genes either. Presumably those metrics were developed by studying Japanese men. Of course it doesn’t make sense to apply metrics for that body type, to, say men of Scandinavian descent who tend to be built rather differently.</p>
<p>As far as overweight goes, that also varies tremendously by body type. According the the US gov weight charts, even when I was 9 months pregnant, I could have gained yet another 10 lb before they’d consider me overweight. </p>
<p>It’s plainly wrong for a parent to call their child “fat” under any circumstances. If I had a child who I thought was struggling due to excessive weight, I would talk to them about health issues, then diet and exercise, but never with an accusatory tone. If it’s a few pounds, I would ignore it completely - gaining and losing ten pounds or so is normal and part of life - lifestyle changes, etc. Most people are very aware of their physical state…so no one needs mom or dad to point out what they already feel bad about or, on the other hand, are very happy with, thank you very much.</p>
<p>Criticizing anyone’s body, especially a parent criticizing a child, is demoralizing, demeaning…certainly counterproductive, and can lead to eating disorders. </p>
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<p>However, in the context of an Asian parent who may be an immigrant from a place where being “fat” is defined closer to the Japanese norm than the US norm, it may not be that surprising if the parent has different standards for whether someone is “fat” than most people in the US.</p>
<p>Of course, this does not excuse abusive behavior, particularly if the standards set by the parent are unreasonable (in a medical sense in this particular case). The parent may well be a stereotypical abusive tiger parent who always needs something to criticize of the kid, often in the most hurtful way possible. But that does not mean all Asian parents are that way, nor does it mean that there are no non-Asian parents who are similarly abusive.</p>
<p>To generalize this is an asian thing alone would be a gross generalization, but working with a lot of Asian folks and my son being in the music world where many of the kids are Asian, there is a pretty common idea that if you criticize the kid like that, tell them they are fat, tell them they aren’t doing well enough and so forth, it will drive them harder (and no, there isn’t some mysterious gene with this, a lot of people all over have that notion). Some of them believe if you praise a kid it will make them lazy, there are a variety of reasons why people do this. It also isn’t limited to any one group, there have been plenty of memoirs about parents from hell who do this to there kids, or the kids of the well to do who have parents pushing them to get cosmetic surgery (Mel Brooks in the movie “Spaceballs” lampoons this, where the “druish” princess had her nose done for her sweet 16…). In Korea and among Korean-American girls plastic surgery seems to be common, at least among a certain social strata (I believe South Korea has one of the largest proportions of plastic surgeons to population…). From courses I took in grad school covering Asian culture (in a business context), image and appearance is still a huge thing, it weighs heavily, as do where you went to school and test scores and such, so that could play into what is going on. And in reality, in this country, despite what people claim, looks often do play a role in how you do in the workplace, there are numerous studies to back that up…</p>
<p>And yes, I do think it is wrong, overpraising kids doesn’t help them, but constantly criticizing them also doesn’t work. In the music world, old world teachers were famous for ripping their students apart but they also didn’t bother to try and build them up again and it was the same idea. My S had a violin teacher (who happened to be Asian-American, but it didn’t matter, they had been trained by old world european sadists) who quite honestly nearly drove him out of music and left him feeling like he was worthless (yet when he auditioned for conservatory, they wrote a glowing recommendation,go figure). </p>
<p>In the end, it doesn’t really matter who or why, it is wrong, it is akin to the troglodytes who claim bullying ‘toughens’ people up and so forth, it is just as stupid IMO, it is just as dumb as the other extreme, of over praising someone. </p>
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<p>Interesting choice of words in the context of this discussion…</p>
<p>One problem is that when you tell your child that they are fat, they just may eat more to prove you wrong. The parents are discounting the power of silent rebellion. Of course that rebellion can sneak in with any parental criticism. </p>
<p>I suppose the parents are also underestimating their own power to hurt their child and ruin the relationship they have with their child. </p>
<p>WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! This is not limited to Asian parents. My own dear mother, who was a bit super-aware of weight always asked her kids, including me, if they’ve gained weight recently. She wasn’t trying to make me feel badly or overly conscious, but weight was important to her. And the only time I weighed more than 125lbs, 5’6" was when I was pregnant when I probably got to 140 lbs. (Most of the time, it’s 120lbs.) It’s really a change now that parents are told to say certain things, or not say them. (And an even bigger change that kids question their parents.) That’s just not how it was when I was growing up in the 1950 or 60s.</p>
<p>So take it the way I took it: that it’s just something they’re concerned about. Geesh, stop criticizing them for caring. </p>
<p>I grew up in an Asian immigrant family and have lived in several Asian countries.</p>
<p>I have found that there is far less of a taboo about weight criticisms in Asia than there is in the United States. My extended family is perfectly comfortable with telling me that I’m fat when I come home for breaks. They also feel obligated to tell me that I don’t eat enough, and pile my plate with more food and force me to eat it. Note that this is not restricted to just family. Neighbors and acquaintances also feel entitled to pass comments on weight. You will see this kind of thing on television and in magazines to an even greater degree than in the States.</p>
<p>I am not alone. I have many friends who diet before they go home for the holidays because they are afraid of what their parents will tell them.</p>
<p>Generally I dislike xojane, but there was a fantastic article posted on that site a few years ago entitled “Fat for an Asian” that related this experience of constantly being loudly judged over your weight, regardless if you are a size 0 or a size 18.</p>
<p>I think that the pervasive assumption that “Asian girls/boys are naturally skinnier!” can be really harmful, especially to young Asian girls in the states. I can promise you that many of those girls you think are naturally twig-thin work extremely hard to keep themselves that way.</p>
<p>OP - you tell us. Do you not believe you are part of the Asian culture, or is it just your father. “My dad is Asian, and some how I am kind of remove from it, so I am asking posters on CC (probably a lot of white, black, brown people) to tell me if it is Asian thing.” Ok.</p>
<p>I have heard German, Italian, Greek, Polish and Hispanic descendants utter similar statements at various times. It appears poor parental judgement crosses many ethnicities. As stated above, the intention may be to look out for the child, but usually its just cutting a deep emotional wound due to insensitivity. </p>
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<p>Have they made the connection that if they keep force-feeding you more food, you will get fat? Or do they want you to get fat?</p>
<p>I could imagine a difference of opinion in the family if the parents are looking at the child and if the child (or the child’s doctor) is looking at some weight charts. Those charts are practically useless. How many of you believe the healthy weight ranges for men and women of a given height are really the same? That’s what the charts say. It’s also an interesting coincidence that weight in kg divided by height in cm squared becomes overweight precisely at the easy-to-remember number of 25 and obese precisely at the easy-to-remember number 30. Very neat.</p>
<p>@mathyone-
Though on a tangent to this conversation, you highlight one of the problems, people have ideas about ideal weight and such divorced from reality. The BMI table, the successor to the old height/weight table, is a statistical model that bears little relationship to reality, they came up with a formula and said ‘ta da’, that is it. According to the BMI table, a 5’4 " women who weights 150 and can squat 395 pounds and has a body fat percentage of 15% is overweight; it says a 6’ man who weighs over 170 is overweight, and it is idiotic, because no two 6’ tall men have the same bodies. Sure, there are 6’ tall men who are 150 pounds, and they are really, really skinny, small frames, you name it. According to that same table, Lebron James is obese…part of the problem is that doctors are some of the worst trained people on fitness and nutrition, most of them have ideas from the 1970’s, and few of them have much training (only 50% of med schools have at least 1 mandatory nutrition course)…the other problem is doing BMI is easy, you measure weight and height, simply, then magic 8 ball formula…things like lean body mass/body fat percentage are tricky, but are accurate, and nutrition is a very situational thing. </p>
<p>I think this is relevant because in the eyes of the parents like the OP and some others, skinnier=healthier, and they obsess about that (think about the fashion industry and their obsession with models who look like young boys body wise…). The irony is of course there are cultures and times, even in western culture, when being more ‘out of shape’ was considered desireable,meant you had grown up with enough food, something that even in the US was not exactly always so common…</p>
<p>@limabean-
There is a difference between concern and obsessing about something and bullying the kid. If a child is truly overweight/non fit, if they have health issues, aren’t happy with the way they look, bullying them or constantly telling them they are fat, ugly, whatever, isn’t going to help (and yes, I have had issues with my fitness a good part of my life, and had a father who thought it was appropriate to use cruel humor, like if eating dinner saying 'go ahead, stuff yourself on candy" when I was eating vegetables at the time). Being concerned about health is one thing, being concerned about a daughter not looking like a fashion model or some preconceived notion they have is another. BTW, that kind of pressure has been tied to eating disorders, there was an article not long ago that in cultures or among people that obsess about ‘looking right’, that the rate of eating disorders is very, very high. Caring is talking to the child about their health, about why getting fit is important, yelling at them if they don’t wear a size 4 or if they happen to be more curvy means they will never get a good husband, or calling them fat, is IMO not only stupid but abuse, and a parent who constantly tells their kid they are fat, that they are overweight and are going to be a loser, is no different than the school yard bully or the parent who thinks hitting a child makes them tougher. The good old days might have had some charms compared to today, but that isn’t one of them. </p>
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<p>BMI works decently in population studies, but gets confounded in individual cases by muscle weight (e.g. athletes and manual laborers).</p>
<p>Waist/height is a relatively easy measure of obesity that can be applied to individuals better than BMI (and is probably better for population studies as well).
<a href=“Ashwell Associates - Dr Margaret Ashwell”>http://www.ashwell.uk.com/shapechart.htm</a></p>
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<p><a href=“Disordered eating: The disorder next door | SELF”>http://www.self.com/fooddiet/2008/04/eating-disorder-risk</a>
<a href=“http://www.med.unc.edu/www/newsarchive/2008/april/survey-finds-disordered-eating-behaviors-among-three-out-of-four-american-women”>http://www.med.unc.edu/www/newsarchive/2008/april/survey-finds-disordered-eating-behaviors-among-three-out-of-four-american-women</a></p>