Places like Yale MAY open doors. Nothing is guaranteed and going to a non top school doesn’t mean all opportunities are closed off.
@romanigypsyeyes, good point. Two refinements… First, all statements should be probabilistic. At Yale or Stanford, there is a higher probability of an attractive opportunity arising. Kids at Stanford are much more likely to be drawn into an exciting startup that gets venture funding. But there is no guarantee, just a higher probability of the opportunity arising. Second, even in an environment that is opportunity-rich, students have to take the advantages of the opportunities when/if they appear.
Perhaps the value of elite school prestige matters more for those who got in with big “hook” assistance. Those who were admitted to elite schools without “hooks” or with only minor “hooks” would probably be high achieving standouts if they went to other schools. But those who needed really big “hooks” to get admitted to elite schools may not otherwise be able to reach a standout level of achievement, so the elite school stamp is more valuable to them.
^^This is a classic case of correspondence bias. People assume that if a person gets admitted to Princeton, that person must be really smart. If one understands that standardized testing>major>college, one is less likely to make such an error in judgement.
I am willing to bet that person did not major in physics or mathematics at Princeton.
@romanigypsyeyes: Somewhere like Yale will likely open a lot of doors. The question is, when deciding between Yale and somewhere else: “will another school open doors as much?” The answer may be “yes”, but not always.
@Canuckguy, correct. She majored in English or the like.
To add: she married a guy from HYPS, so perhaps even her now-husband thinks that she is smarter than she actually is, and she wouldn’t have had that marriage without the Princeton stamp.
I thought the legacy only applies when the parent(s) went to that college. I guess there is some “inborn qualification” that is more beneficial than the legacy status. The money (and/or the power) talks. Such a student will have a lot of doors open for her/him even if she did not go to Princeton or the alike. The choice of the major is also not important for her.
I am willing to bet that a non-hooked student who gets into a school like this is born into a family whose household income is at least between 75K and 150K a year (and the parents do NOT have to take multiple jobs to earn such income.)
Just look at the quality of the EC for most of the admitted students. How much resources will be required to have an achievement at this level? If you. as a non-URM, is born in the middle of nowhere and go to an undistinguished high school and come from an undistinguished family, what is the odds for you to achieve an EC at such a level? Even Mozart needs to come from a music family in order to be found.
I have the feeling that the “inborn qualifications” for grad school admissions to the similar school are less required. It is more likely to see a student NOT from such a family background at the grad school level. (i.e., such a student tends to have an enormous odds against him/her to get into a similarly ranked UG school.) Or, those students born with the silver spoon would not wan to be a grad school to begin with. (Too much “work”, and too little fun EC-like club activities as a grad student.)
@mcat: my high school classmate who got an 1100 on the SAT and got into Princeton got in simply because her uncle, who was a Princeton trustee, called the admissions office and demanded that she be let in.
Her admission happened despite her low SAT score.
A student with an 1100 SAT will not “have a lot of doors open for her/him even if she did not go to Princeton” since the sole reason she got in was her trustee uncle making a phone call- not her inherent skills.
She got a better job out of school than she otherwise would have gotten, married a guy from HYPS, and probably has had other benefits in life, all due to her trustee uncle, despite her own lack of top-tier qualifications.
She did follow the advice of that Princeton alumnus who suggests that female students at such a college should spend efforts to snatch a “good” husband in those 4 precious years. How’s her look? If it is above average, her odds of securing one is good if she is willing to focus on this in college.
@mcat2, her husband did not go to Princeton. He was probably attracted to a wife who he assumed was as smart as he was, and the Princeton stamp on her indicated that. I doubt he knows that she got only an 1100 on the SAT and got into Princeton because of her trustee uncle. She is above-average looking.
@HappyAlumnus, Without knowing further details, it is hard to say that she is not smart. She is definitely not test smart. But she could be very lopsided (e.g., especially poor in math.) She may need more time in SAT but somehow could not get a doctor report in a legitimate way to have additional time when sitting for the SAT test. Or her own parents do not know how to make this happen due to the lack of knowledge in this area. (Actually, some parents can help their children a lot to boost their educational opportunity in a legitimate way if they know how. But if the parents need to work for 3 jobs in order to put the food on the table, all bets are off. I heard that if the parents enjoy going to a museum or similar culture-related activities, their children tend to score better in SAT.)
English, History and a few other social science departments (psychology?) tend to be large at Ivies. Many students are in one of these majors. On the other extreme, I once heard Chemical Engineering major has the most requirements – but those who are groomed for our future leaders like CEOs will unlikely be in such a major that is meant for those “working ants”.
Above-average looking definitely helps. If a woman has the look, many guys could go to a great length to overlook her other qualifications. Guys could be quite shallow sometimes.
Maybe one can be quite intelligent even though they only scored 1100 on the SAT. Maybe the SAT is not the sole representation of intelligence. Maybe there is more to intelligence than what one scores on one particular standardized test. If HE is all that smart, he’d know within a short amount of time whether or not she has intelligence of any kind without having to refer to a score on a college entrance exam. Maybe he’s not all wrapped up in what one single number says about a person.
SMH…
HappyAlumnus, you’re clearly quite proud of your elite college background and you clearly believe that elite schools are the bee’s knees and everything else is subpar. And that’s fine. However, I think you over-attribute certain things to the words on your degree.
Again, yes, an elite degree CAN help depending on the field. However, more often than not (excluding some fields like ibanking), it is not the name on the degree but what the person does during his/her time in school. If you are “good” enough to get accepted into an elite school, you are almost certainly going to excel no matter where you go.
I actually do not get it why ibanking tends to recruit only or mostly at an elite college.
A prior CCer, BDM, who was at a med school (and then also at THE top law school later), once posted that, in his personal experience at his med school in mid-west, those from a public college tends to have a better work ethics (e.g., the difference in work ethics is that for some students, they only study 12 hours a day before STEP-1, but for those who are truly “exceptional”/“elite” in this area, they study non-stop everyday, even when not preparing for the only test that matters in med school.)
If what BDM said has some merit, and ibanking requires work ethics to the extreme (to the extent that the majority of them will burn out over the course of a couple of years), ibanking industry is likely just too lazy to devote more needed efforts to recruit those students who will really shine when being put into the high pressure working environment. An alternative explanation may be that in such an industry (which mostly serves the rich?), it is really a necessity to throw these brand names all over the places in their day-to-day working environment.
@nrdsb4, I think that her husband saw the Princeton degree and assumed that she’s as smart as he is.
Sorry, an 1100 SAT score does not indicate near-genius intelligence.
I’m curious as to how the husband saw the Princeton degree in the first place. Did she whip it out the first time they met? On the first date? Seems like an odd ice breaker.
Further, he MUST have known before marrying her that she wasn’t as smart as her degree indicated (as you imply). And yet, he still went through with the marriage. Weirdly enough, it seems as though he might not have married her for the degree.
@romanigypsyeyes, where you went to college is a pretty basic fact about someone.
I think that for many people, once you find out where the person went to school, if it’s somewhere elite, you just assume that the person is sharp. 1100 on an SAT certainly isn’t a terrible score; she’s not dumb, and maybe they just never discussed things.
Ah, this is true but you keep saying “saw the degree”
Much respect to Notre Dame because I am Catholic and I love the school, but i have to agree with the other parents on here that its the students decsion. I was born and raised in California and I can’t stand the dryness, no rain, drought etc. I love hurricanes, rain, snow and just love weather all around. Weather is a huge factor in my decision, it just so happens that my #1 school is U of M in Ann Arbor and the place has all of that and it doesnt hurt that their engineering department is one of the best and thats a plus. Honestly, I applied to UC schools here but if given the chance to study at U of M, I would automatically go because of the significant change in atmosphere from California. Rain and cloudy days make me happier and at ease which would help me get up each day excited for the day because everything is perfect and maybe thats why the parents let their child choose that school. Because overall they would be happier and successful.
@romani, I heard that in NYC, there is some “dating club” whose members are exclusively Ivy alumni and the alike (maybe Duke and Stanford?) Later , its membership starts to include some people who have a job which is perceived as being prestiguous enough. Maybe she met her husband at such a club. LOL.
Half a decade or so ago, an intern at my company found out I have a son of a similar age as his at a college and asked me where he attends the college. I got the same response from him (he actually said the same S word.) when I told him that. More often than not, it is a question better not to be asked (depending on who asks this question though.)
@HappyAlumnus, don’t be so pompous. I scored 1000 on SAT, yet have tested 148 IQ. I did not finish college, yet I have a job that I consistently earn between 300-600k per year. I have Ivy League grads call me the “smart guy” at work. Don’t make such broad assumptions. In life, you either can or you can’t. Yes I know there are professions requiring a degree, and I sure do want my surgeon to be highly educated. The world needs every kind of individual, as long as they are adding to society in a positive way, it’s all good. And my 2 cents is to let your kid decide where they want to go, but some guidance is ok to ensure that they make their decisions informed and that they benefit from the parents experience and (hopefully) wisdom. The cream always rises to the top at the end of the day, your degree can’t hide shortcomings, no matter where it’s earned.