@twoinanddone, Wyoming has lots to offer and is a classic example of ratings gone bad. The campus is cited on Rugg’s as a favorite of visiting high school counsellors. The Cowboys have great school spirit. They have the world’s first ABET accredited Energy Systems Engineering program. As an interesting side note, my father went to MIT, his brother, Wyoming (subsequent Stanford PhD). To this day my dad maintains that his brother’s Wyoming education was as good, if not better than his undergrad at MIT. Here’s one person who would look at your daughter and say “smart girl!”
Along with programs listed earlier in thread- IB etc. South Carolina also has top rated honors program. Kids in that program often have top stats and scores.
As to weather of course it can matter. D1 had freshman friend not return to cold VA school. She was from Florida and couldn’t take the cold dreary winter days
@eyemgh
Now that post I totally agree with. I see now the point you wanted to make, and I agree. There are often far more opportunities for students that want to get to know profs well and do meaningful research at schools that don’t have the big time graduate programs and the very famous profs. I am sure there are exceptions at those schools as well, but as a general rule I think that is a fair statement. Undergrad rankings are completely meaningless. Grad school is completely opposite.
As far as Colgate and South Carolina, I cannot think of two places that are more different in most ways. Size, location, sports, Greek life, so on and so forth. I believe the quality of what is taught is probably similar, but how that is delivered to the student and in what environment are at opposite ends in most ways. Then it is just a matter of which fits any given student better. To say as a blanket statement that Colgate is better or USC (either one) is better is patently ridiculous.
These people might “only” be 17-18 years old, but that is plenty old enough to know how you learn best, what environment is most likely to suit you best, your need to be close to home or away from home, etc. etc. To pretend like these are not important factors for many students is odd, IMO. Now I will concede that many students are very flexible and none of these factors are very important to them, and they will do about the same in almost any environment, although even they must have preferences. But they are most likely a sizable minority. Most students do have needs and preferences pronounced enough that they will most likely do better at one school than another not because it is more prestigious, but because it is a place they would like to live for 4 years, more so than some other places.
Actually…no I do NOT see your point…at all. Our daughter was accepted to University of South Carolina, and we thought it was a terrific school. In addition, she receives a huge merit award from them, and their admissions department was amazingly responsive. Our family really liked that school…it’s quite good, and also has some fields that are top (e.g. Sports management).
Colgate is a great school, but not if you really don’t like winter weather!
What PARENTS would let their kid choose U of South Carolina over Colgate? Well, we would have!
I would pay different amounts for different schools (and majors) because there are differing opportunities at different places, and some opportunities are worth more than others (IMO), but if it won’t cost me hardly anything for a kid to attend a school I don’t think much of, eh, ultimately, it’s their life. If they get in to a grad school, the money would be there for that.
Yeah I really find it shocking that someone so narrow-minded and haughty like the OP can be an ND grad. Truth be told I feel very embarrassed (I’m not an ND grad but have extremely strong ties there).
Because we have faith in the children we raised.
Shocking that an ND grad is haughty, @bluecollar?
We have faith in the children we raised to make appropriate decisions at different point of their lives. I don’t believe they could make a decision on which school maybe best for them without a lot of input from their “well-informed” parents. There are parents who are clueless and many do not care, but I think I could help my kids with a lot better informed decision when it comes to colleges. Most kids tend to see the most immediate gratification of their decisions, not necessary for the long run.
My older daughter is getting ready to buy a 2+ bedroom apartment in NYC. She has the means and she knows what kind of apartment she wants to live in, but she has no knowledge when it comes to the real estate market or even know how to negotiate a contract. No different than our students when it comes to colleges. They have the stats to get into schools, they know about their own fit (location, weather, major), but most of them do not think beyond the first few years or how they are going to finance it. I am amazed that so many parents are willing to let their kids make 250K+ kind of decision on their own. I bet you most of you wouldn’t let your kid at 17/18 to buy a car on their own even if it’s their own money.
Someone with stats to get into Colgate probable has stats to get into other “higher ranking” large Unis. If my kid was out of state for USC and is paying higher COA than for Colgate, then I would want to look into other Unis to see if my kid could get more aid. There is always a cost and benefit of attending one school over another.
Making the choice when it comes to buying a car, picking a school, or buying a real estate are all life lessons. Our kids do not just know what to do when they turned 18 because we “have faith in the children we raised.” It comes with experience and a lot of maturity.
I don’t think USC is a $250k price tag. My daughter’s OOS tuition will be about $60k total before any merit aid or other FA, and in the end probably about $45k total. R&B is also much cheaper than it would be at most other schools. All told, it will be about $90k for us, not $250k. I think my friend’s son who went OOS to USC was about $125k, all in. He received a few little merit awards along the way, but basically was full pay. At bigger schools, the cost of R&B often goes way down in years 2-4 because the students can live off campus.
You may help your daughter with the negotiating of the contract, but are you telling her where to buy, what type of unit to buy, that she should buy an efficiency rather than a 2 bedroom? I’m sure you’re helping her decide what she can afford, maybe what areas are a good deal, but are you telling her that she shouldn’t buy in Queens but should live in Ossining or NJ? I steered my daughter toward certain colleges, but she selected the one she wanted. I then helped her with the negotiation - what type of dorm, meal plan, what classes to look at, how the finances work. If she were buying a car, I’d definitely be there for the general selection and help her look at a few different types, but when it came down to it, I’d let her pick the car, the color, the personal license plate.
You’ve said you want the top name school and didn’t want to settle for less. That’s your choice and I accept that name is very important to you. You just don’t understand that many of the rest of us don’t have the ranking of the school as the most important factor, or even AN important factor. It really was of no importance to my kids. They wanted certain types of schools, certain offerings. One wanted snow. One wanted a good sports team. One was offered a spot at a top ranked LAC and had no interest in it even after a lot of pressure from family members who thought as you do, that she should go to the best ranked school.
So I’m another parent who let a child turn down a higher ranked school for a better fit, and much better weather.
After the winters we’ve had up here lately, I highly encourage all people to consider weather. Winter can be miserable for many people (raises hand) and 4 years is a long time with LONG winters up here in the north.
@romanigypsyeyes, it builds character.
On a serious note, I also complained about winter when I was growing up in the Midwest, but now that I’ve lived in places with winter and places without winter, I’ve come to the conclusion that while nice (or at least non-freezing) weather all the time is nice, I’ve noticed (and studies have shown) that (unless you’re the type who get depressed from the lack of sunlight) it doesn’t have an affect on happiness, satisfaction, or pretty much anything.
OP, what makes you so sure that the reason they’re giving you (weather) is really “the” reason? Maybe there’s a financial reason you’re not aware of. If I had a private reason for something I did, I might not just go tell everyone what it was - I might make up another reason. This family doesn’t really owe you the full explanation of their choices.
@PurpleTitan, the point is you’ve lived in both type of climates so you experienced the difference or non-difference. Some people like the year round steady climate and others like the seasonal changes. Let them decide for themselves.
I’ve noticed people almost infantizing their almost grown children, to the point where the adult child is not allowed to make any mistakes. Wrong college choice is not a $240K mistake. No one pprepays four years of college. (Okay $60,000 is also expensive). Transferring is always an option, so is taking a year off. My point is children, especially adult children but at any age, need to make mistakes. There is no perfect life. There is always a Plan B.C.
I have no particular preference between Colgate and USC. I can see pros and cons to both schools - they are very different places so it has to come down to where will the student thrive. I don’t buy the argument that the student will always do best at the “better” (defined I guess by its rank or prestige) school.
Transferring might not be a real option for all students. Kids who are relying on freshman scholarships might not have the same opportunity for equivalent funding as a transfer student.
I’m one of those people that doesn’t believe that rankings are really all that helpful or important for undergraduate education. I think that students can get a fine undergraduate education at many colleges - big, small, private, public, etc. I certainly let my kids pick their college. We told them how much we could afford and then let them decide. My D totally picked her undergrad college based on location and campus, rather than ranking (she was accepted to higher ranked schools). Turned out to be a fantastic choice. She had great access to top professors, the ability to do quite a bit of research in her field and is now working on her PhD at a top ranked (which actually is fairly important for PhDs) university.
In my S’s case - he is a musician who wanted to go to a conservatory. He fell in love with a small, less-well known school, was accepted early and cancelled his Juilliard audition (and all of this other ones). And, again, he is thriving. Maybe he’ll go to Juilliard or Curtis, or whatever, for grad school. But for now, he’s happy.
@Barfly Yes, I would say so.
As re post #72: oldfort, your daughter may need your help negotiating contracts, but I hope that you would accept her explanations for preferring one apartment over another, even if they did not correspond with your own. Many people would question the choice, say, of a walk-up studio in Manhattan over a spacious apartment in Queens, but New Yorkers make these trade-offs all the time. Your daughter might prefer one location over another for a variety of reasons. Would you dismiss her preferences, even if they seemed trivial to you (e.g. proximity to a favorite pub or cafe, number of blocks she would have to walk to the subway station, architectural style, roommate or boyfriend’s budgetary constraints, et al)? These are the decisions that define us as adults, and that young people should learn to make for themselves . . . with appropriate parental input, of course. The family described in the original post presumably held their own conversations, and accepted that the student liked USC better than he liked Colgate. Their reasons are not ours to know, much less pass judgment upon, but there’s no reason to believe that the decision was not a mature, considered one.
My cousin went to Colgate, enjoyed his experience there. He didn’t have an easy time getting his first job, in spite of his degree, because he was searching in an area that was not economically booming. Eventually he did get that first job, which involved a lesser salary and a much longer commute than he would’ve preferred. Now he’s doing fine, but in a different area of the country. I would say your job opportunities have more to do with: what you majored in, how well you applied yourself while in college, and where you’re trying to get a job. All three, much more so than the specific name of the college you attended.
Notre Dame is a great school, highly respected. Just not conservative enough for me, in a Catholic sense, so I hope my kid doesn’t want to go there. And there’s the lousy South Bend weather. There are some other options I hope he’ll consider, but in the end, it will be up to him.
Yeah, we’re all a bunch of liberal parents here!
I was born and lived up north for a good part of my life, with probably worse weather than you’re used to, and I didn’t complain about it. It was just a fact of life. I didn’t aspire to live anyplace south, even though I went to college in Pennsylvania and thought the climate was noticeably better there. Less snow! Shorter winter! Better temps!
Now I’m living in Florida and I LOVE it here. Unlike my hometown, or even PA, it is sunny on MOST days. If it rains, it’s just for a while, and then clears up. (instead of the all-day, sometimes multi-day gray periods that occurred routinely in my hometown) On an unusually gray day here, it literally “seems like (hometown)” out, and my husband feels the same way. I’m not a Seasonal Affective Person, or anything, but I have to say my quality of life has gone WAY up since moving to the south. It makes me wonder why moving south never occurred to me earlier.
We also have one of the prettiest college campuses in the nation right here where I live in Florida. It is not highly ranked nationally, but my niece graduated from there a few years ago and then went on to medical school and is now a resident. So it isn’t all about rank or prestige, and I wouldn’t knock the weather, either!