<p>You have to evaluate on a campus-by-campus and chapter-by-chapter basis. The nearby chapters of my fraternity at large state schools were very "bro"ish. I wouldn’t have joined the counterpart chapters had I attended a different school. I think in a lot of cases the Greek system is a microcosm of the student body.</p>
<p>If someone wants to join a sorority or frat, so be it . No one is forced to. It is a choice. I did not, but have left it up to my 3 kids to decide. All 3 of their schools do not allow rushing until sophomore yr, which I think is better. It gives them time to make informed decisions. Presumably they have made friends and have adapted to college level studying.</p>
<p>But to judge a group of people because they belong to a sorority or frat, or attend a certain school, or wear certain clothes, or are of a particular race or ethnicity, etc.is prejudice. Even if your own personal experience was bad, to generalize is prejudice. </p>
<p>Some of the posts on this thread have been so extremely anti-greek. Foam parties? Who cares. Loud parties? Come on, these are young adults having fun. Raping a passed out first year? AGAINST THE LAW AND TOATALLY IMMORAL. But it does not happen on a regular basis at frats (probably very rarely) and does not happen only at frats. (The post that gave those horrendous memories of incidents of frats while at college–WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOUR SCHOOL TO TOLERATE SUCH BEHAVIOR?)</p>
<p>So OP, if you are enjoying sorority life and are getting a good experience–good for you. Maybe some of us have missed out on a great experience. Enjoy it and do not worry about what others think (unless you happen to be interviewing for a job, dressed with your designer bag or not, with someone who thinks greeks are cheating, raping, shallow , immature individuals).</p>
<p>Yes OP its up to you. The original question was “why do people hate greeks”? We all have had different experiences ,personally and thru our children. People such as me answered with their experiences, which in my case happened to be negative. Does that make us “extremely anti greek” as posted by morrismm. No, it simply means that we had negative experiences and that is all. One persons negative experience is another persons positive one. I have several other stories, but they are only experience that touched my own self and family and not meant to encompass the institution as a whole. Many people thrive on the mix of social conformity and wild partying offered by these institutions. Enjoy and make your own decisions. The world is made up of all points of view—within and outside of your House.</p>
<p>because most people on CC are nerdy, and aren’t into the popular social networking of greek life (yes i realize this is a huge generalization)…or they themselves have been blackballed?..</p>
<p>Not blackballed, - just nerdy here. Personally most of my extensive social networking was with done without the aid of an institution such as a sorority. And frankly at UCLA during the early 80’s myself and most of my friends thought the sororities were pretty nerdy.I said in my original post that I was not a joiner to begin with. Most of my current “insight” comes from my d’s experience. Im surprised how many posters will not accept that perhaps some experiences with frats and sororities may have been negative.</p>
<p>OP here:</p>
<p>Thanks for assuming I have a designer bag ;)–I don’t, nor do I want one, nor do a vast, vast majority of my sisters have one. 
As to if I would care if someone has a designer bag, I honestly couldn’t tell you for the life of me!</p>
<p>Trust me, I really, really don’t “look” like someone who has had life handed to me on silver plater (and I haven’t–even though I’ve been lucky than many in many regards, something for which I am quite thankful).</p>
<p>As for all your comments, thanks, though I was a bit dismayed to find many of the same judgments and stereotypes pop up on this thread as well (though I guess that at least cuts the need for me to look up examples!). Are all Greeks upstanding individuals? No, of course not. But the again, not all indepents are either. I was talking to a professor who I TA’ed for this semester. He was/is also Greek and mentioned calling out the chapter of his fraternity here on campus when they were doing some things he thought were inappropriate and wrong. I applaud that, and try my best to be a good representative of my sisterhood.</p>
<p>As for those of you who mentioned grades not counting in membership selection (which is, as Hanna said, a private, confidential process–like, say, college admissions!), suffice to say that grades are very important. This year, my chapter had the highest GPA of any GLO, which was a significat selling point for many girls/women!</p>
<p>As for not being involved with others, I can say that every single member of my house is involved fairly strongly with a non-Greek campus organization, job, etc. (often many, many more than one, as my four page long resume could attest), and has friends outside of our house and Greek system. This may not be the case with some schools, but it certainly is the case with ours.</p>
<p>^^I’m also surprised at how many posters have had positive experiences w/ frats and sororities.</p>
<p>My daughter didn’t attend a college with Greeks, and I didn’t notice designer handbags.
I may not know where Gucci studied, but I know where [Pucci</a>](<a href=“http://accessories.about.com/od/fashiondesigners/p/emilio-pucci.htm]Pucci”>http://accessories.about.com/od/fashiondesigners/p/emilio-pucci.htm)did</p>
<p>“Many collegiate sports teams do similar pranks / hazing / forced brother-sister-hood whatever you want to call it. Is that equally bothersome?”</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, I like how you managed to totally ignore that the next sentence after the one you quoted was “Other groups manage to make their freshmen and rookies jump through a few hoops for fun without getting in other people’s way, but the fraternities and sororities demand idiocy” </p>
<p>Read my description of some things pledges do on my campus, and kindly explain how they serve any purpose other than being a ridiculous, stupid nuisance. On the other hand, the sports teams and other clubs that have initiation rituals at the very least don’t bother anyone who isn’t joining. The rugby team might have the rookies decorate the team’s office and make dinner for the upperclassmen, but they’re not bothering anyone who isn’t on the team.</p>
<p>Great. That’s your campus. On my campus, I don’t recall anything that would have otherwise bothered / disturbed other people who weren’t participating. The types of things we did in my sorority were along the lines of your “rookies decorating the team office and make dinner for the upperclassmen.” Frankly, none of us would have put up with anything that would have been socially embarrassing or interfered with schoolwork.</p>
<p>My apologies to OP. Sorry this thread has shifted so far, way beyond the scope of your original question. (Paraphrasing) you asked why all people here always unfairly disparage sorority sisters as drunk, slutty, etc.
Many posts here have been interesting discussing Greek life, Greek memories, Greek rush, handbags, hazing etc.,; but very few had any connection to your question.</p>
<p>you asked why all people here always unfairly disparage sorority sisters as drunk, slutty, etc.</p>
<p>I think that was answered.
Some said that wasn’t the characterization they held, others, mentioned that, that had been their experience at college.</p>
<p>Sounds like a range of opinions to me.
:)</p>
<p>Just my two cents: Regarding dressing for others/judgement about who/what you are based on clothing. Wake up people…everytime you leave the house people “judge” you. Are you clean/fashionable/wearing gang colors/professional…whatever. If this weren’t the case, television shows like What Not To Wear wouldn’t be so popular. People judge…fact of life…move on. And insofar as “acting” in a certain way. You’re going to be judged on how you behave, all through your life personal and professional. It’s kind of nice when one’s behavior is consistantly appropriate.</p>
<p>As for designer bags: Well, purchasing stuff keeps the economy going. And if someone choses to get something more expensive that you can afford or disdain because it maybe an advertisment for a designer: Don’t wear it/purchase it…and get over it. (And don’t judge the person wearing the Versace, they’re not necessarily judging you by your lack of designer clothing.)</p>
<p>One serious note about sororities: Each sorority has a charity and MUST raise money to support that charity. This brings those rich *****es (sorry…had to say it, but hang in there) to value someone/thing other than themselves. Oh, and after graduation these women tend to keep supporting charities and looking beyond their limited lives. Oh, and oftentimes sorority women tend to have a higher gpa than the campus at large. </p>
<p>Friendship: Many years ago I rushed and joined a house (what a surprise you are thinking). I wasn’t rich, and privileged insofar as I was able to go to college. Many years later these were some of the women who held me up during chemo, made dinner for my family and checked in on me every few days and took me to chemo to give my husband a break. Did my non sorority friends do this? Yes. Friendship has no limits or parameters unless you put them up, whether in college or after.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, you really should have read my entire first comment before replying with points I already made. I know it’s different on every campus, and even at my school some people in fraternities and sororities are awesome. But the OP asked why people had certain biases, and I answered from personal experience.</p>
<p>ellebud: It may be true that people are judged by their appearance no matter what, but it’s perfectly reasonable to disagree with the standards people are using. In my experience, the vast majority of sororities are perpetuating narrow and destructive appearance standards. They’re hardly the only ones, but they’re not helping.</p>
<p>I’ve not noticed the bias on CC but I mostly frequent the parent forum and maybe haven’t read threads related to greeks.</p>
<p>My hunch is any group that is perceived to select some and excludes others (at least on personal factors rather than meritocracy or some kind of perceived objective criteria) will always get some flack in our culture.</p>
<p>Perhaps because we live in a part of the country where appearance is very importent I do take exception to the notion that sororities perpetuate a look that is elitist. I would rather see a young woman dressed in clean (not designer btw) clothes, sans tattos than the boys (for instance) who wear the sagging pants with their underwear showing. Call me foolish but hey…</p>
<p>My girlfriend’s daughter recently joined a house where, as the daughter “admits” is the lowest tier on campus. As the daughter said, “Some of us may be too heavy, some of us have pimples…but we are there for each other.” Would these girls have met on campus at different venues? Perhaps…but this sorority brought them together.</p>
<p>And as for mean girls…God bless them (because I certainly wouldn’t), they exists everywhere from elementary school on up. And they get their reinforcement from the community, their parents, and yes, the school. There are some sororities that are nasty, that enforce weight rules and have cliques in them (and these women would group together anywhere be it in college or a local PTA when they have children), but I have found that most sorority women are not like that in real life. And if a woman carries a Gucci or a Target purse it is, ultimately, the content of her character that counts.</p>
<p>I think of sororities as shallow, mean and dedicated to appearance over substance. This story comes to mind:
[Gruntled</a> Center: DePauw Sorority Shows It Has Class When Its National Office Does Not](<a href=“http://gruntledcenter.blogspot.com/2007/02/depauw-sorority-shows-it-has-class-when.html]Gruntled”>Gruntled Center: DePauw Sorority Shows It Has Class When Its National Office Does Not)</p>
<p>At Depauw, the Delta Zeta chapter was having trouble recruiting enough sisters. So the national organization came in to “help.” Their help consisted of holding recruiting parties in which the sisters who weren’t considered pretty enough were instructed to stay out of sight, and then throwing out of the sorority women who were either not thin enough or not white enough. Bravo, DZ.</p>
<p>There are plenty of examples of bad greek organizations.
Lots of corrupt politicians in Chicago too. Do do I hate Chicago politicians?? Geeeez - I hope not…I just voted for one.<br>
Why do CCers hate Greeks? Folks just LOVE to put people into boxes. “Greeks are shallow drunks” is a nice convenient box for those who are prone to simplistic and stereotypical thinking. Especially those who have been wounded in some way in the past.<br>
Just like any group…there are good and bad. And lots in both categories.
FDR and Bush were both greeks. Enough said.</p>
<p>“So therefore all Greeks are shallow.” Great logic there!</p>
<p>We are TELLING you that for SOME of us, at certain campuses, it WASN"T about shallowness, it WASN"T about mean girls, it WASN"T about predefined appearance standards or weight / designer clothing standards. The only judgment that can be made of a Greek system needs to be at the college level and chapter level, not overall.</p>