<p>Pizzagirl, you quote, “So therefore all Greeks are shallow.” Those quote marks imply that someone other than yourself said that. Who are you quoting? I can’t find anyone else saying that in this thread.</p>
<p>“We are TELLING you that for SOME of us, at certain campuses, it WASN"T about shallowness, it WASN"T about mean girls, it WASN"T about predefined appearance standards or weight / designer clothing standards. The only judgment that can be made of a Greek system needs to be at the college level and chapter level, not overall.”</p>
<p>PizzaGirl, I don’t think anyone is even suggesting that ALL Greeks are shallow - - that would be preposterous. But that there may be exception doesn’t make the general premise untrue. </p>
<p>When a college is described as “White and preppy” that doesn’t mean that everyone on the campus in White and preppy, but the description is fair and accurate if it fits the majority of the student body. Likewise, I’m certain there are at least a few politically conservative, sub-free, preppy types at Hampshire or Pitzer, but that doesn’t make the description of either school as hippie-liberal inaccurate or unfair.</p>
<p>My parents were active members of their respective frat and sorority well into their 60s. There were no Greek organizations at my college, so I have no experience as a sorority member (though the frat party scene at a nearby college was enough to turn parent’s stomach). I’m not a real fan primarily b/c, looking at the photos of Greek activities on college/uni web sites, the sororities and frats appear to be among the most racially segregated clubs on campus (and I’m including the black Greek orgs to which my parents were members). </p>
<p>OTOH, I know several students (all white) for whom Greek life has been a very rewarding part of their college experience. I don’t discount their experience, but still, I think D would be better off at a school w/ little or no Greek life - - but not because I think ALL Greeks are shallow (or anything else).</p>
<p>And that’s one of the great things about living in the USA - freedom of choice. :)</p>
<p>Yes…I agree a correction is in order base on my reading of this thread.
How about “The vast majority of greeks are shallow”<br>
Uggh…I very much disagree with that - but that’s what I pick up here.
Just got a nice “greek” holiday card from my son’s fraternity. It’s a really diverse group - and that’s clear in the pic. I know…I know…he’s clearly in a group that is one of the exceptions out there. This is getting old…</p>
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<p>My point exactly ;)</p>
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<p>Yes… What I’ve picked up from this thread, sadly, is that “good” Greeks tend to be seen as the exception.</p>
<p>Actually what I think is getting old is the concept that “Don’t confuse me with the facts, I know what I want to know.”</p>
<p>ellebud, you speak the truth.:)</p>
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<p>Isn’t that everything in life?</p>
<p>You know, I’m pretty much a neutral in the fraternity wars. There weren’t any at my college when I went there. My father was president of a fraternity chapter when he was in college, and it was very important to him. My youngest sister was an officer of a sorority chapter at her flagship state u in the Southwest.</p>
<p>I read these threads, and I think, “Yeah. Fraternities can be positive, etc.” But in real life – and I’m talking about real real life, not press accounts – the stories I hear from friends and family create an overall negative feeling. I just heard another this weekend that made me want to cry – about some friends’ son who was devastated freshman year when he was not invited to pledge the fraternity his friends joined, then spent sophomore year positioning himself to join the fraternity, then wound up de-pledging in a hazing incident he won’t discuss. Then he felt so socially isolated he stopped going to class and doing his work, and dropped out of college. High school valedictorian, fancy private university with a great academic reputation.</p>
<p>Obviously, this isn’t “typical” in any way, but I do feel it is symptomatic of a less-than-healthy social environment, and it feels like the fraternity is part of the problem, not part of the solution.</p>
<p>Maybe that’s because when it comes to “Greeks” what people want to talk about is the negative thing that happened to someone they know or something they’ve heard about, not the mundane positive everyday experiences people in Greek life have. That’s not the juicy stuff.</p>
<p>I’m not discounting what happened to your friend’s son, that is a sad story. But, with every sad story, there are hundreds of good stories that just aren’t brought up in conversation. They aren’t interesting.</p>
<p>I heard that story from the parents. They are devastated, in shock. It wasn’t juicy gossip about fraternities at all; it was a family tragedy involving people I feel close to, where the fraternity seems to have had a supporting-actor role.</p>
<p>I know good stories, too, and I know there are lots of them. The lives of smart people in their late teens and early twenties tend to be pretty positive, with plenty of good things happening. So it’s no surprise that fraternities and sororities are full of success stories. But by and large one hears exactly the same success stories about kids who aren’t in fraternities and sororities. Likewise, bad things – often the same bad things – happen to kids in and out of fraternities. It’s the kind of thing one would love to see a controlled experiment on, but never will.</p>
<p>ag54, the “good” stories may not be as interesting as the bad stories, but, your post IS discounting the negative. JHS cited his father’s positive experience with Greek life. still, when BALANCED against the negative report from a friend’s son, JHS concluded (as did I) that “the fraternity is part of the problem, not part of the solution.” </p>
<p>The fact that some of us don’t see Greek life as positively as you do doesn’t mean, as your post suggests, that we have over-looked or misconstrued the facts.</p>
<p>I don’t think you read my post (or my thoughts) correctly. </p>
<p>For every awful story that one hears about Greek life, there are thousands of positive stories that are not told. I believe that, in large part, is why there generally is a bad conotation about Greeks. People hear a bad story, or have recollections of individuals that were unkind, or just plain bad news, and they equate that with the entire greek system at every college.</p>
<p>People tend to repeat the bad stories because they are more interesting, thus spreading the story of the individual occurance to others because gossip is gossip. You don’t hear people spreading stories like, “Did you hear that the Kappa chapter at NU raised $50,000 at their sock hop?,” because it is only interesting to people who have a stake. BUT, you will be working out at the gym and hear a mom saying, “I heard from Susie that Sally’s son was hazed at Sigma Sigma and had to do some awful things.” That is the nature of gossip.</p>
<p>What happened to your friends’ son is awful and sad, that is why I said I wasn’t discounting it. I hope that he is able to move on from it. I, over my life have seen some awful things happen to kids too - cruel acts done by despicable kids in order to hurt others, but it happens all over the place - in high school classrooms and junior high play grounds (especially to girls, I was one who was picked on unmercifully in 7th grade - had to change schools because I physically got ill thinking about having to go back and face the queen bee and wanna-bees). I just don’t think it is right, or fair, to castigate an entire system based on individual bad experiences.</p>
<p>There is no way to equate one fraternity or sorority and their recruitment policies with another, not even within the same national group but a different campus. They are different everywhere, populated by ALL kinds. There is no real stereotype, it is just made up by the media (Animal House, etc.) and people who don’t really know Greek life.</p>
<p>I cannot tell you how many people I know who said their kids would never go Greek, and spout off all kinds of negative things, only to have a son or daughter join. Then, they come back and say things like, “Johnny has met the most amazing group of guys.” But, just the year before, fraternity guys were nasty drunks…</p>
<p>Thanx to tone, post 124.</p>
<pre><code>I can say that in my college yrs, yes, I knew some drunken, slutty sorority girls. I’d say in all fairness, most I met weren’t so. Most were caring students of all sizes, financial backgrounds, and in my experience a pretty good bunch of girls.
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<p>I want to close first by saying I don’t remember ever having posted about that minority of “bad” ones, and second Thanks! to that minority.</p>