So many people in this forum tell kids to not working about what college you go to and focus on getting into a prestigious graduate program instead. The problem is that most grad programs are just as hard if not harder to get into than an undergraduate program. I know someone who got into a PhD program for mechanical engineering at UCLA, and he was one of the last few students who barely made it in. He had a 3.97 GPA in undergraduate at another T20 school and had extensive research experience.
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Fully funded PhD programs are very difficult to gain acceptance, especially in the current environment with funding cuts. That is openly acknowledged on this site.
Master’s programs, which are not funded, are typically more accessible.
The advice on this forum does tend to be that students should not go into large amounts of debt for their undergrad degrees and to not exceed the federal student loan amounts. Personally I think that is valid advice. Educational debt can be crippling and limiting.
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Acceptance rates to masters programs can depend on the career path. Masters programs for some careers are highly competitive, with single digit acceptance rates for all schools throughout the country, whereas masters degrees for other career paths are more accessible.
Undergraduate name is not important for most of these programs. It’s more about what you do: gpa, essays, experiences, letters of rec, interview skills etc. It is also common to take time off to strengthen your application.
Fully funded PhD programs are extremely competitive, as noted.
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I attended an Ivy+ college in a fully-funded doctoral program. I came from a midwestern flagship, and the vast majority of other grad students I met were not coming from Top X programs. In fact, a lot of people came from colleges I had never heard of before and that are hardly ever (if ever) mentioned on CC.
I was never in an admissions committee for the grad program, so I can’t say what exactly they were assessing. But I strongly suspect that they looked at the range and rigor of courses taken, what kind of academic work/research they had done while in school, what opportunities the individual had taken advantage of, and how the individual’s interests aligned with those of the department. The name of the undergraduate institution seemed to have little impact.
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In some subjects, the reputation / prestige of the applicant’s undergraduate department can matter, if the PhD program believes that some departments prepare students for PhD work significantly better than others. Note that top-end departments in a given subject may not be the same as those housed in colleges with the usual prestigious names.
It can also be the case that a LoR from a well known writer can have more impact than a LoR from a lesser known writer, and the greater presence of such in some departments may be an indirect favorable aspect of those departments.
Of course, “rankings” of departments for undergraduate pre-PhD preparation do not really exist, and any information that could be used to derive such is subjective and not transparent.
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Depends upon several variables including the type of graduate school one wishes to attend.
With respect to professional schools, MBA programs focus on post undergraduate work experience in addition to standardized test scores and one’s undergraduate GPA rather than on the college attended. Several Top 15 MBA programs have admit rates above 20%. Several Top 25 MBA programs have admission rates above 30%
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In terms of admissions to graduate programs, This will depend upon the program. I agree that admissions to very good PhD programs can be insanely competitive. PhD programs that are ranked in the top 30 or so can at least in the cases that I am aware of be very highly competitive for admissions (eg, sub 3% acceptance rate in one case that I know of). Master’s programs seem to be not quite so insanely difficult for admissions. Other programs will vary (eg, DVM admissions is tough, but seems to be a bit less tough compared to PhD admissions).
There are a lot of questions on this web site and pretty much any web site that deals with university admissions from people who are asking about highly selective universities. I think that some us have seen a pretty clear trend. Undergraduate students at selective universities come from a huge range of high schools. Graduate students at selective universities come from a huge range of undergraduate colleges and universities. Graduates from selective universities in the vast majority of cases find themselves working alongside graduates from a huge range of other colleges and universities and in most cases almost no one cares where anyone got their degrees.
Also, the selective private universities can be very expensive for students who do not qualify for a lot of need based aid. Some of us have experience with attending highly selective universities and some of us do not think that any advantage that we might have gained (if any) is worth the debt, if you need to take on substantial debt. Also, finding a good fit is more important than the ranking of your university. Sometimes a highly ranked university is also a good fit. Sometimes it is not (I perhaps had an experience each way).
Whether any graduate program at all even makes any sense for one particular student is going to depend upon what the student wants to study. For computer science or engineering a graduate degree is not usually needed (although a master’s degree is possible, and these are areas where the university that you graduated from does not seem to matter much). For a premed student who is majoring in biology, some sort of graduate degree (whether MD, DO, PhD, or master’s degree, or something else) seems relatively more likely.
And I might be a bit skewed in my experience since I come from a family with a lot of graduate degrees (either in progress or already obtained).
But we (and I) should be careful to tailor our advice to each specific thread and to the situation of each particular OP, and to answer the question that is posed.
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Some grad programs are easy to get admitted to and some are not.
Psych major interested in a career in counseling? There are the easy programs- Master’s in Counseling, MSW with a few rotations working with more seasoned therapists, etc. There are the middle difficulty programs- PsyD. And the hard admissions- Doctorate in Clinical Psychology.
In my area, there are several Master’s in Education type programs that are pretty much open admissions. You have a Bachelor’s from an accredited US college? Not hard.
So OP- nobody is ignoring how hard it is- it’s just that some programs are NOT that hard!
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I don’t think anyone here underestimates the difficulty of getting into many of the top grad programs – grad school is sometimes mentioned as a secondary option if the “prestige” undergrad schools are not feasible (either academically or financially) for a student.
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Some Masters programs are fully funded. My daughter is in one now.
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this really, really depends on the grad school program you are talking about and level.
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If you want to teach HS chemistry or physics or math and have a degree in electrical engineering (per your other thread) it is NOT hard getting a teaching job at a private school and then depending on your state’s requirements, you’ll have a few years to get your Masters while you are teaching provisionally. Once you have your Master’s in Education you can get a job in any public school system… it is hard finding good science/math teachers!
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Agree. Close family friend is head of an masters program which is fully funded for all matriculants.
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In engineering, most masters programs are just as selective as the undergraduate program
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Depends on the grad program. Medical school is very difficult to get into any program. Law school, not so much. Yes, tough to get into a T14, but there are a couple hundred schools out there for law school and there’s definitely one for that student. It may not be Harvard Law, but there’s a school there that can lead to a promising future. Just pass your classes and the bar!
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My point is it varies widely - both directions - can be more or less competitive. Some grad programs are easier (e.g. an MPH at harvard is MUCH more accessible than a BA there). That doesn’t mean this is true all are across all schools and programs at all levels.
Also, it doesn’t mean prestigious of undergrad is a main deciding factor in the grad acceptance. (I do think some people on here downplay this more than I would, though. )
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I have a family member who graduated with a masters in engineering from a school with an undergraduate acceptance rate under 10%. I just looked at the admissions stats for their masters program and it is not like undergrad…. at all. Not even close.
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Many engineering undergraduate programs are not that selective.
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@tossthrower You have a degree in electrical engineering from UCLA per older posts. When did you graduate? Have you utilized the career service resources available to students and alums?
You’ve created many threads expressing challenges in high school and college. Now it seems you are struggling with what to do with the next stage of your life. I encourage you to seek counseling so you can end the spiral of regret and develop a plan to move forward with your life. You can do it! Utilize the resources available to you. I don’t believe an anonymous site is the best resource, unless you are just looking for a place to vent. I wish you well.
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Not sure I have seen that (much) on this forum, so I disagree with the premise.
Yes, fully-funded doctoral programs are a difficult admit. And extremely difficult at top schools. No one has said otherwise. (fully-funded doctoral programs are the only ones worth attending)