Will 3 years of social studies hurt your chance to top10 colleges?

My son is a rising freshman and wants to major in computer science or engineering in a top10 university. He wants to take physics sooner in order to have time to explore related extracurricular activities and also be able to take AP CS A. There are few constraints. He can only take physics after biology and chemistry even his math qualifies him to take AP physics 1 freshman. His high school only has 6 periods and he will have band for sure. I’m aware that the top colleges require 5 academic courses each semester. The only option seems to take biology and chemistry freshman but not take social studies. He will take AP world history sophomore, AP government /econ junior and APUSH senior. He will meet graduation requirements. Will top college see 5 science courses ( one is CS) and 3 years social studies as negative?

The guidance counselor can explain. Our school had similar constraints and one of my kids took a social studies class online when it didn’t fit in their schedule. They happened to love history.
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So he’s an 8th grader… Just as an FYI, the term “rising” is usually utilized in the summers when students are between grades.
But yes, top colleges will want to see 4 years of all core subjects which can be explained and figured out by your school counselor.
But schools also expect to see art, music, business classes, computer, PE, health and the other graduation requirements for different schools and states.

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Perhaps dual enrollment would be an option to pick up a fourth year of social studies (especially as one semester of DE equals a full year HS course).

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We found online to be easier to fit into busy high school life than DE. The classes can be done whenever you have time. VHS wants work finished on Fridays, as I remember. Some online classes are even more flexible.

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Yes to all of this, and recommended 4 years of foreign language as well. With only 6 periods, this will be tough to schedule it all. Good luck!

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That’s really the answer. Plus advise him in the best 4 year plan, which may change over time. Your question is far from unique.

Is that even an option? Most high schools have a set curriculum for freshman, with the only options, other than accepting level placement in a subject, being which foreign language to study or, if fine arts is a freshman requirement, choosing art vs music. Few allow doubling up on a subject as a freshman, and require bio before chem. But none of us know the HS.

Additionally, if he’s starting foreign language in level 2, completing level 4 as a junior will invariably satisfy a college’s 4 year recommendation and free up a block in senior year to take both a lab science and CS.

I would also suggest, unless it’s the norm for that HS, to flip USH with gov/econ. In addition to USH usually being a junior year course, understanding gov is better with a foundation in history.

At this point, it’s way to early to explore online or DE options if a 4th year of social studies can’t be fit in. And my personal opinion is that in the core subjects, social studies is the one where 3 years is totally fine if there’s a legitimate reason. The legitimate reason being HS curricular requirements and genuine scheduling issues, not student preferences.

Finally, I’d implore you to not be that parent. As your son enters HS, he’s the one preparing for college, not you. And it’s always too early to assume T10 is on the horizon. You can provide guidance, but he needs to do the legwork, including initiating conversations with his counselor. Good luck

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Your son has quite the ambitions for an eighth grader. It sounds like he’s bright enough to talk to his guidance counselor and come up with a plan.

Please make sure they’re his plans and not yours. Speaking from experience!

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What’s wrong with…

  • 9th: biology
  • 10th: chemistry
  • 11th: physics (AP)
  • 12th: CS (AP)

and take the usual social studies each year (choosing honors or AP as desired)?

Usually, the college prep schedule in high school is the following each year:

  • English (may offer honors or AP options)
  • math (students may be in different placement levels)
  • science (usually biology, chemistry, physics, elective in that order, but some high schools are different)
  • foreign language (choice of language, may have different placement levels depending on middle school, heritage speaker, etc.)
  • social studies (may offer honors or AP options)
  • art or elective (including academic ones like CS, PLTW stuff, or additional of any of the above); requirements like health may fill some of these slots

Some students complete the highest available level of math or foreign language before 12th grade, so they gain additional elective slots in 12th grade.

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My primary concern reading your original post is that your son is still in middle school. I think that it makes sense for a student in middle school to want to do well in their classes, and to care about their education. However, this is very early to be thinking about a “top 10” university.

I do happen to have two degrees (bachelor’s and master’s) from two “top 10” universities. However, when I was in grade 8 (or 9 or 10) I was not thinking about universities at all. I liked my math and science classes and did well in them. I was learning to play chess. I was participating in ski club and learning to sail. However, I was not thinking about which university to attend.

Of course the top 10 universities for computer science and for engineering are not quite the same as the top 10 universities overall, although some (MIT and Stanford come to mind) are in both sets. There are a lot of universities that are very good for computer science and for engineering. However, I think that it is too early to worry about any of this.

You might however want to read the “applying sideways” blog on the MIT admissions web site. My understanding of what is recommends is that each student do what is right for them, and do it well. This approach has worked for us (so far, one graduate admissions still to go) but what was right for each of us was very different, and it led us to different universities.

And I agree with others that this overall issue sounds like something to discuss with his guidance counselor.

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Your son is in 8th grade and imo it is too early to discuss attending a top 10 college. I am sure your son will discuss HS classes with his guidance counselor when the time comes.

Is this discussion coming from you or your son? I would focus on friendships, activities, and healthy study habits/maintaining good grades.

Why not take SS all 4 years and take CS his senior year as noted above? He can discuss this with his GC.

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I think that it is ok to be thinking about college that early (but not too much). You want to make sure that you don’t do anything to disqualify you from your dream. This can happen at high schools that don’t normally send students to the most competitive colleges. People look at high school graduation requirements instead of what it takes to get into the college level they want to try to attend. If your son will be part of the “average excellent” population applying to top colleges, imo, only having 3 years of social studies is a critical mistake.

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I agree that it’s fine to talk about college, but I think it’s premature and over the top to discuss top 10 colleges and what it takes to get accepted…while in 8th grade. You could do everything “right” and not get in, and if this is the expectation starting from the age of 13…it could lead to other issues.

I would not skip a year of SS. I would take 4 years and take CS as a senior (as outlined above). I would also encourage this student to meet with his guidance counselor and discuss appropriate classes and requirements.

Attending a top 10 college may or may not happen. It is too early to predict what an appropriate college will be, and that’s ok. He’s in 8th grade.

Most important…your son needs to satisfy his state’s high school graduation requirements. Here, that includes four years of some kind of social studies classes.

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It is always a bad idea to fit two science classes with labs into one year, so forget him trying to take bio and chem as a freshman. No guidance counselor is going to recommend that. He needs high grades in all his classes and two sciences with labs is going to make that difficult.

I very much read your post as what you want your son to do, and what you have determined he will do. He is four years away from applying to college and six years away from declaring a major. Maybe he will decide he wants to major in history once he gets to college.

If he truly wants to be at a top ten university, it is critically important that he does something impactful outside of academics. He can have a 4.0 and a 1600/36 and the highest course rigor, as do the vast majority of applicants to top ten universities, but those things will not get him in. At those schools, it’s everything else that will help him get into the colleges that you say he wants to be admitted to. He will need exceptional recommendations from teachers and genuine interest in something that can’t be manufactured.

If a top ten school is in his future, and you want him to have some time to enjoy himself as a high schooler, I suggest you let him cultivate his interests outside of academics. That’s where many kids find their people and have fun while dealing with the demands of high school. And I suggest you let his guidance counselor play a major role in helping him plan out his high school years.

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Agree with @Lindagaf as quoted below- and I would add that with an EC that is interesting to colleges, there is sometimes some flexibility in the required or recommended courses (by the college; not for state graduation requirements).

If he truly wants to be at a top ten university, it is critically important that he does something impactful outside of academics.

and

If a top ten school is in his future, and you want him to have some time to enjoy himself as a high schooler, I suggest you let him cultivate his interests outside of academics. That’s where many kids find their people and have fun while dealing with the demands of high school. And I suggest you let his guidance counselor play a major role in helping him plan out his high school years.

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Please understand, top colleges do allow for varied pathways to a high school diploma as long as there is rigor and genuine passion for learning. They are looking at much more than just the course line up. D21 was accepted into an Ivy and highly selective colleges with only 3 years of social studies, the equivalent of three years of Latin that included Latin 101 online one summer, and - the horrors - no English class during 10th grade because it did not fit into her STEM heavy schedule she insisted on, but she had a HS credit from 8th grade English 1 and took English 2 in 9th, AP Lit in 11th and AP Lang in 12th.

If anything, we have found some of the bigger state publics to have narrower guidelines on what their requirements are for the courses in high school - literally checking a box.

I really hope the schedule allows for a computer science course prior to senior year if that is an interest. Another option is college courses in the summer or other online programming classes or self taught programming passion projects.

Know, as well, that it is ok if interests change, as an example, band may not be a passion in 10th grade, that may open up scheduling. Take this one year at a time and give space and opportunities. And if you have read other threads you will understand the humor here, please do not encourage him to start a non-profit :slight_smile:

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I’ll add that not thinking “Top10” will help your child. I understand it’s probably shorthand for “a great college with sub 20% acceptance rates” but you’ll do your child a huge favor by helping him focus on colleges the names of which aren’t necesssarily known. First, there are 3,700 colleges in the US. Anything top 40 is going to be elite. (Compared to a typical country with 40 to 50 universities, where top10 makes sense, the US has a lot of excellent universities and where most countries have one or 2 world-class universities usually meaning graduate programs, the US boasts literally dozens and dozens of world class institutions).
Second, looking at your state flagships, tech schools, LACs, will ensure youe child will be able to determine what environment works best and will help him apply broadly when senior year comes.
Finally, it’ll help your child protect himself from the fallacy of dream schools. Many schools can be the right academic and social fit - it’s much harder to find them than to alight on a dozen famous names and it’s damaging when the student is attached to a college that is likely to reject him (because they reject 90% applicants…)
Planning is good - but be ready to adapt and keep an open mind. :wink: You’ll know more by 11th grade.

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You have gotten a lot of great detailed answers, but I just want to add some high-level framing to keep in mind.

Although I have broadly kept some links to higher education, this was my first cycle with an actual applicant to college, and so my first cycle where I really dove into the discussions around applying to college. And frankly, one of the shocking things to me was seeing all these people with a very focused interest on CS/Engineering, but then also talking about desperately wanting to go to one of the most selective private colleges in the US.

This is so odd to me because most of the traditional tech/engineering powerhouses in the United States are publics. This goes back to the roots of how different types of US universities developed, with older private colleges having been mostly on what was known as the classical model, and a wave of publics being founded on what was then known as the modern model, often with the help of land grants.

And the modern model is what contained the sorts of practical fields that became what we know as tech/engineering (versus science and math, which were part of the classical model too). To somewhat oversimplify, this modern university wave was the origin story of Michigan, Cal and UCLA and eventually other UCs, Purdue (Indiana was more on the classical model), Georgia Tech (UGA also having been on the classical model), both Texas and TAMU, Illinois, NC State (again UNC was on the classical model), Virginia Tech (again UVA was on the classical model), Washington, Penn State, Ohio State, Maryland, and on and on.

There were some hybrids–MIT and Cornell were land grant modern universities (for Massachusetts and New York) that were still structured with private governance. Stanford, although not a land grant university, was modeled on Cornell, and CMU was a similar sort of project by Andrew Carnegie. RPI has a fairly unique history as an early tech-focused research institute, more grad focused originally that then backfilled undergrads. And then there are small private engineering schools like Cal Tech, Harvey Mudd, Olin, and so on.

Still, these are exceptions, not the rule, to where the vast majority of tech/engineering professionals get their college degrees, even today.

Now eventually, a lot of the classical colleges caught on to the popularity of these modern fields and have been playing some form of catchup, to various degrees of success. CS in particular is a newer field and there are versions of it which are more theoretical, more science and math than tech/engineering, so that sort of CS has a presence at a lot of classical-origin privates. They have sometimes also added engineering, but it can be pretty nichey or otherwise not that robust, certainly not compared to the traditional engineering powerhouses. And sometimes these programs are better for grad school, or possible grad school intenders, versus for going into the profession with just your undergrad.

OK, so why all this background? Well, I think you will find that if you really want to specialize in tech/engineering–and eighth grade is way too early to make that sort of decision–then the logical main options will mostly be the public powerhouses. And those will in fact tend to be a little more generous in terms of what else you have done outside of STEM stuff. At a high level, this is collectively because they have a lot of slots available, and they are looking to fill them with the strongest students in STEM. You cannot be completely incompetent at other things, because they usually still have some sort of “general education” requirements. But their standard for “good enough” preparation for gen ed requirements is relatively generous.

If you instead want to go to one of the relatively rare private colleges or universities that has truly robust tech/engineering, collectively they have far fewer slots available to begin with. And many of them start getting quite picky about your non-STEM stuff too. Partially that is just an institutional values thing–they often pride themselves in producing tech/engineering people who also got a very good liberal arts education, and that means selecting students who will not just pass but actually thrive in non-STEM classes too. But also it is just a way of cutting down the applicant pool to a manageable number.

So, like MIT applicants with top math subscores on tests and a bunch of advanced math classes and math competition awards and such are just far too common for MIT to admit them all. So applying a filter that MIT admits also have to have taken advanced non-STEM classes and done extremely well, also have to have a glowing recommendation from a non-STEM core teacher, also have to have very high reading/writing test scores, and so on, is a way for MIT to easily cut their pool down.

But again, that is just MIT. Only a tiny fraction of the future successful tech and engineering professionals will have gone to MIT (or Stanford or Cornell or CMU or such), the vast majority in fact will have gone to a public. And again, collectively the public tech/engineering powerhouses are usually not so picky in these non-STEM ways as these highly selective privates.

OK, so again, I cannot emphasize enough that no one should be trying to plot this all out in eighth grade. But, if a kid naturally following their passions really wants to max out the STEM stuff in high school, and just isn’t interested in also doing a lot of advanced non-STEM stuff, that is perfectly fine. It may mean in practice they do not end up going to one of these private colleges looking for it all, but that is fine–they don’t need to, and in fact those colleges are not a good fit for them. They instead can and should go to a public tech/engineering powerhouse, and have a great time and get a great education and launch a great career.

But maybe they do love their non-STEM classes too, and are ultimately a good fit for the private college route. That is also fine, and in fact there are private colleges not so selective as MIT or Stanford or such that can serve as alternative targets, and of course maybe a public or two for likelies.

But my point with all of this is you should not try to pre-choose the path. Let the kid pursue their interests as comes naturally to them, and then there will be a right path for them from there.

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The other thing to note is that engineering tends to be less college-prestige-elitist than some other lines of work like investment banking and management consulting (and law with respect to one’s law school). So, while “top ___ college” is the focus for high school seniors and their parents, it may be less important when entering the workforce, especially after one’s first job.

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