Will Ivy League schools tolerate low GPA?

International Students
1

Hello, I moved to America just a year ago (I’m a senior) and English is my 2nd language. I am applying to 8 colleges, 4 of them are Ivy League schools. I read that 4 Ivy schools is too much, so I am trying to eliminate one. I am definitely applying to Cornell, and the other 3 are Harvard, Yale, and Columbia.

I got a 33 on my ACT. I got a 4 on my AP Chem class last year. I got a 790 on my Math 2 and 740 on my Chemistry subject test. I am also taking 3 more AP classes this year. So, the actual problem is this:

I had the worst school experience in my 9 and 10th grades. Teachers never helped me, in stead, they used to humiliate me in class. I had a lot of other distractions as well. That’s why my GPA was low, but all my grades in 11th grade was above 95 which increased my GPA to 3.64 weighted.

But, it’s still not high enough for the Ivy schools. I briefly mentioned this in my essay (without sounding like I’m complaining about my old school). Do you think I have a chance to get in there, or am I “automatically” rejected because of my GPA?

2

Think of how many students have perfect GPAs. Several of the Ivies get about 30,000 applicants and about a 6-8% acceptance rates.

It’s not that the school won’t tolerate low GPAs; it’s that there are so many other applicants with high gpas–the whole package. The Ivies could fill their classes many times over with kids with perfect GPAs. Why would they bother finding kids with lower GPAs? Maybe if that person had an imperfect GPA but also designed a new rocket ship and successfully got SpaceX to launch it to the moon–or that person won the world’s piano competition at age 9 – or that person was awarded the Nobel Prize at age 15 after being shot for fighting for the rights of the underprivileged – or that person did something else that was similarly impossible seemingly to do and on the world stage, they might over look a slightly slipped gpa. Otherwise, what’s their incentive?

Do yourself a favor and apply to several other nice schools that are not Ivies.

It’s not the school that makes the person, it’s the person who makes the person.

3

Yes, a 3.64 is a dead end for any top 25, university/LAC.
THE EXCEPTION: if your grading system in your original school was different from the US system, they would re compute your grades.
A 7/10 could be a very good grade in some foreign systems, so it wouldn’t be counted as a us 70%.
In that case, you’d have two separate GPAs:
One from your original country
One from your us school
(What your us-only GPA?)

As for how to eliminate:
Are you a NYS resident? Apply to one of Cornell’s Contract colleges using HEOP if you qualify (hurry, spots are very limited).
Do you love the core? Why?
If you can answer this question immediately and persuasively (try it below) drop Columbia. If you can, keep it.

What are your eight colleges, and why eight?
What are you interested in (major)?
What’s your budget?

4

Will you be automatically rejected because of your GPA? No, of course not. Applications are considered holistically. Your GPA is just one part of it, and you have a nice upward trend to go with it.

On a side note, you read where that applying to 4 Ivies is too much? Can you afford to apply to all 4? Do you have a safety school you would be happy attending? If yes to all, then by all means go ahead. Just make sure that the other 4 schools aren’t reaches and you have a >95% chance of getting accepted to them.

Don’t stress too much about the Ivies. You can be successful at any school you go to, if you have the drive.

Goodluck!

5

Before I moved here, I had the idea of applying to around 20 colleges and pick from the ones I would get accepted. Then, I learned how wrong I was, but I still wanted to get into a prestige college. Well… that’s why I had 4 Ivy schools.

This is a piece of how I explained the grading system in my country (under the additional information section):
In the end of the senior year, there is a big test that must be taken to go to college. Colleges accept students according only to that test score, and high school grades serve only as extra points for the test score. Thus, my high school was highly challenging. All classes from all branches were mandatory to take each year, and all module tests were in one week. The reason is that school grades were not a key factor for the graduation score, and making the module tests slightly rushed would get students to study a lot and prepare them for the big test as well. However, this resulted with average tests scores of 70-80 in my school. That is why my scores were a little lower in Turkey.

Yes, I am a NYS resident. I submitted my fafsa, CSS, TAP, and noncustodial waiver forms.

My US only GPA is 4.14.

I didn’t quite understand what you meant by “Do you love the core.” My high school core or the college I will apply to?

I did not see the last two replies when I was deciding which colleges two apply. Right now, it is 9. It used to be 8 because my adviser told me that having more than that would make me look unconfident with getting into the reaches. Here is my list:
Harvard
Yale
Cornell
Carnegie Mellon
NYU
Boston College
U of Rochester (I live in Rochester, and I already applied to this one)
SUNY Binghamton
SUNY Stony Brook

I wanted to try Columbia or UPenn, but after reading the first guy’s reply, I went with Carnegie Mellon and NYU.

I am interested in getting into the medical field. My major will be biochemistry.

I am not really sure about the budget. I only have my dad as my parent, and he earns around $20,000 a year. He takes care of my sister too.

6

It’s not really a strong resource (and i couldn’t find it), but someone said that applying to 3, if not 2, is the best.
I get fee waivers for applying to colleges, so that will not be a problem.
I have 2 safety schools, but I changed my list during the last few hours, so I have more match schools than reach.

7

Your adviser is wrong. Colleges don’t know about where else you apply.
Applicants who need a lot of financial aid (like yourself) frequently apply to a lot of colleges because they need their full need met and either colleges don’t or are too highly selective to be predictable.
Applying to more than 8 colleges has nothing to do with “lack of confidence you can’t get into a highly selective college”. It is prudent and strategic when one combines the different factors you have (two schools including one abroad, checkered rigor, high financial need).

Core: if you don’t know what Columbia’s core is, then it’s not for you. Students apply for that… look it up. for highly selective schools “fit” is important.
Try to find a Fiske Guide and/or a Princeton review’s best colleges in your school’s library, and start reading, starting with the colleges listed below.

If your income is 20K, then your application fees are waived (make sure your GC checked it on the commonapp as well as checking it yourself + on SunyApply + CSS Profile) which means you should definitely apply to a more strategic list.

First, you need 2 affordable safeties. Unfortunately, neither Bing nor Stony Brook are safeties for you due to GPA, being more “by numbers” than private colleges (which are holistic), and acceptance rates.
SUNY Geneseo may be a low match so add it as well as another SUNY of your choice (New Paltz, Albany, Oswego…)
Apply to the Honors College or Honors Program at all of these whenever it’s possible (look up Honors College on their website. Sometimes it’s by invitation only but often you have to apply. Honors College = community of motivated, high-achieving peers, special perks, and scholarships.)

Your EFC is zero. You need to find a “Meet 100% need college”. And if you’re premed, you need a collaborative environment with a lot of support to ensure you can rank top 10% in each class you take.

If your family makes $20,000, then you need “meet need” colleges - use your search engine for a list.
It means you’re eligible for the advantage/nudge that is HEOP for NYS applicants, so apply HEOP to private colleges in NYS - please go see your guidance counselor on Monday and ask how you can apply for HEOP. Make that a PRIORITY ie., as soon as you arrive. It’s your best chance at all the top private colleges in your state including Vassar and Cornell, so take it. HEOP criteria usually indicate a GPA or test scores below what is normally expected.
http://heop.org/support/faqs/

CMU: doesn’t meet need, not right for premed, cross out.

NYU: only if you live in NYC and can apply HEOP, otherwise cross out due to poor financial aid.

Cornell: apply HEOP to the contract college CALS - here are the departments of interest to you:
http://ecologyandevolution.cornell.edu/
http://nbb.cornell.edu/
https://mbg.cornell.edu/
(Biology is shared between CALS and A&S, but since you’re a NYS resident you get to apply to CALS while all other students look with envy)
https://admissions.cals.cornell.edu/academics/majors/biological-sciences/

Boston College: are you Catholic? not very nurturing for a premed (competition) AND for a low income student (financial aid is supposed to be 100% but can be dicey, well-known for lack of economic diversity). If the NPC meets full need without loans you’re okay, otherwise cross out.
If you’re Catholic, you may want to look into Fordham (HEOP + they’d be interested in your 33), UScranton,

URochester: good pick, meets 100% need, good for science and premed. Did you apply HEOP? If not, see how you can change it

Add:
SUNY Geneseo (you wouldn’t qualify for HEOP there but they have an additional special “immigrant” factor even for non HEOP applicants; good environment for premeds)
Rice (similar to URochester but in Texas, with “houses” like in Harry Potter), Dickinson (especially like high scores and students who lived abroad, very international - so, very good fit for you), Muhlenberg (very good for premed, early acceptance program to med school), Wheaton MA, Kenyon, Lafayette,Connecticut College, Colby. If you can go a bit further away, Grinnell, St Olaf, Macalester, Rhodes would all be good schools for you to apply to, very strong in the sciences with lots of opportunities for premeds.
St Lawrence (HEOP), Hobart&William Smith, Skidmore (HEOP), Vassar (HEOP) = all very good for premeds, although Vassar would be the most generous financially and the most prestigious; it is actively looking for very low income/high achieving students such as yourself. You definitely need HEOP to have a decent shot at Vassar though.
It may be too late for HEOP so you really need to hurry with that process, contact all the schools.

Apply to Berea College: if admitted, you’re guaranteed a full tuition scholarship and you’ll work every week to pay for room&board. It’s a very good college for students whose families make less than 45K a year.

8

I really appreciate your response. Right now, I’m making some last minute changes on my list. I will definitely apply for HEOP if it is not too late. How many colleges should I apply do you think? Is 15 okay?
Oh, and I’m not a catholic. I removed BC from my list. It doesn’t sound like the right college for me comparing to the others.

9

Remember: prioritize asking how you can apply HEOP to Vassar, Cornell CALS, etc.

There’s no ideal number, it depends on what you can handle.
Several of these will require extra essays that will be time-consuming, and you want to do a good job on these. (You can send me your draft.)
I’d definitely include more SUNYs, which should be easy since the applications should just be the same one as for Bing and SB, although there may be supplements. Include Geneseo and one more (Albany?) Do these first, by Wednesday for no supplement aps or Sunday for apps with supplements.
If admission to Honors is by application, complete the application before the priority deadline; if by invitation, watch your mailbox and respond to the invitation. Enter this in your calendar.
https://www.geneseo.edu/edgarfellows/selection
http://www.stonybrook.edu/undergraduate-admissions/academics/honors/
https://www.binghamton.edu/scholars/
http://www.albany.edu/honorscollege/

Once that’s done, fill out the “request information” form for ALL colleges listed on this thread. Do that quickly (or even today). This establishes “interest”; it means you’re not sending them an app just for the heck of it, but because you’re really interested in their college.

Then, focus on essays for HEOP matches: St Lawrence, Skidmore. Polish them. Be done by Dec 15.
You now have good, polished essays, and two weeks, with several days off school. Use these well.

Using your polished essays for the reaches, apply to Cornell CALS and Vassar. If you want to throw in Columbia HEOP (check what The Core is!), apply. Then, add the other colleges, one by one, as you can manage. You may need 3 days per college, even with your polished supplemental essay templates.

(Some universities, such as Colby, Kenyon, or Middlebury, don’t have supplements, but they’d be reaches. However if you were among the lucky few who were admitted, their financial aid package would be excellent. So, I’d leave them for the end, when you’re really tired of writing applications. However, only do that if you have filled out the “request info form” well before.)

10

Have you seen this? Are you willing move out of NY?
Will ACT 33 you may get full tuition

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/2006094-2017-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-p5.html

11

With 3000 colleges in this country, why concentrate on only 5 schools that have double digit admission rates? Even a perfect GPA won’t guarantee Ivy admission.

I think you need to cast a much wider net.

12

Are you a US citizen or PR? Keep in mind that getting into med school here if you’re not either is very difficult.

13

It’s worth applying to see what happens, but I wouldn’t bet on it. Ivy Leagues have an acceptance rate of around 5-8% anyway. It’s more dumb luck than chance. That being said, you don’t have bad or even average grades. Be happy!