Will not taking AP Bio hurt my chances of getting into Fordham?

Applying to College
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I am a sophomore in high school, my target school is Fordham University. I already have my classes picked out for junior year, but it’s still possible to change them, and I’m wondering whether I should take AP Bio or not. I’m planning to apply as a humanities major, and in order to take AP Bio I would have to replace my AP Lang class with a dual enrollment English class that takes place after school. My classes freshman year weren’t super rigorous and I only took one AP - US History - this year. The AP classes that I picked out for junior year are supposedly easy APs - AP Stats, AP Lang, and AP Gov - and so I’m worried that they wouldn’t look very impressive on my transcript without Bio. Please let me know whether not taking it would hurt my chances.

In case it helps, I plan to take five APs senior year: AP Latin, AP Calc BC, AP Lit, AP World or Comp Gov, and either AP Music Theory or CSP.

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We need more context to best help you.

Taking DE english instead of AP lang isn’t a great option. What science classes did you have the first two years? What science classes will you have junior and senior years?

Are you taking pre-calc along with AP stats in junior year? What foreign language have you taken/plan to take?

Big picture, you should also find some other colleges you like as well! But there’s plenty of time for that as a rising junior.

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OP mentioned AP Latin.

Without knowing school context, I personally think the planned schedule is fine for a humanities degree at Fordham. Obviously GPA and if applicable test scores will matter too.

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I’m also taking precalc junior year, didn’t take Latin freshman year but taking it currently. I took Honors Physics freshman year (B+) and Honors Chem sophomore year (A). Planning to take Bio junior year and possibly AP CSP senior year, but other than no science classes after Bio.

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Probably not, but if you’re so concerned, you could always take AP Bio as a senior

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No, it would not.

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I agree. I would recommend OP take a science class senior year whether AP Bio or something else.

Fordham’s acceptance rate dropped quite a bit for Class of 2030, to ~47%. Obviously OP’s grades will be important in addition to their rigor in core courses.

https://now.fordham.edu/university-news/record-high-applications-strong-academic-achievement-a-look-at-fordhams-admitted-class-of-2030/

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OK, so I tend to think most college-bound kids should make a point of taking all of Physics, Chem, and Bio at the high school level at least once, regardless of intended major in college. I don’t think any of those has to be an AP, so good so far.

For selective college admissions, I tend to think it is a good baseline suggestion to take a natural science all four years. So, assuming you do all three of Physics, Chem, and Bio at the non-AP level, maybe you take one of those at the AP level as a senior. I also think you can do something like AP Environmental Science if you prefer. I would not count AP CSP, though–that is classified as a Math elective, and I agree.

But suppose you only want to do the three core science classes, and skip a fourth. Are you totally doomed for selective colleges? Of course not. But now you need to start checking what any colleges of interest actually say on the subject.

So what does Fordham say? Here you go:

https://www.fordham.edu/undergraduate-admission/apply/what-were-looking-for/academic-achievement-and-rigor/

OK, so they say a couple things of relevance.

First, they say they want you to challenge yourself, and then say APs are one way of showing you have challenged yourself at high schools that actually offer APs. Does this mean you need to take literally as many APs as you can? No. But if your school offers AP science classes, would it be a good idea to take at least one if you are applying to Fordham? Yeah, probably.

OK, then in terms of specific course breakdowns, they list:

  • English (4 years)

  • Science (3-4 years)

  • Mathematics (3-4 years)

  • Social Studies (3-4 years)

  • Foreign Language (2-4 years)

On the plus side, this is implying you could do just three years of science. On the minus side, they don’t just leave it there, they say “3-4”.

My suggested interpretation of this sort of recommendation is you should probably do four UNLESS there is some obvious reason why you wanted to do something else. Like, for example, Arts kids might have transcripts crowded with advanced Arts electives, and in that context maybe just doing the basic three science classes make sense. If you were a CS or Engineering kid, maybe you would substitute CS or Engineering electives for a fourth year of science–although ideally, you would do both.

The basic problem I see with your plan is you are looking to do AP Music Theory or CSP, but then you are not planning to apply as a music or CS kid. I don’t think that is a problem if you can do that AND a fourth science class, but I would see it as potentially not quite the best plan if you are not doing a fourth science.

That being said, at the end of the day, how plausible is it that Fordham would want you as a kid with an AP science planned for senior year, but not as an otherwise identical kid with AP Music or CSP planned for senior year?

That’s such a narrow scenario that realistically, if you really wanted to take Music or CSP, then I would just go for it and not worry.

But if you are asking what would be optimal, and don’t feel strongly about wanting to take either Music or CSP, I would probably go ahead and think about a fourth science instead, preferably an AP.

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It did drop, but I think this drop had much more to do with Fordham finally employing enrollment algorithms/ yield management algorithms. Up until this year, Fordham essentially did not yield protect.

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I think not taking AP Biology will be just fine. You seem to be a strong student and your rigor is plenty high enough.

Since Fordham is your first choice, make sure to do a good job demonstrating interest. In other words, make sure to do all the optional essays when you apply. Do an official in-person campus visit before you apply if you are able. If you are not able to visit in person, reach out to an admissions officer (for example by email) and explain why you can’t visit in person, tell them that Fordham is your top choice, and sign up for a virtual visit. Whenever Fordham sends you emails, make sure to open them, read them, click on any links etc. This will let Fordham know that you really do see it as a top choice and are not treating it as just a backup (to NYU or Columbia etc.)

My son just finished a great 4 years at Fordham (LC.) Best wishes to you!

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I would interpret Fordham’s 3-4 years of science as 4 years for intended science majors and 3 years for humanities majors. Since this student is an intended humanities major, I don’t think that the 4th year of science is necessary, especially an AP science class.

I would further note that Fordham is not a particularly selective school. Just as important is that they have historically had a low yield rate. Even with this past year’s increase in applications, the yield rate remained at about 10%. Finally the driver for the demand at Fordham is its business school. Given that this student is interested in humanities and will therefore be a candidate for Fordham College, not Gabelli Business School, I don’t expect that admissions will be a problem without AP Biology.

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I can’t speak to that, but apps increased 23% over the prior year! Fordham has become quite popular.

I agree with this and wouldn’t be surprised if some AOs think similarly.

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I would be cautious with assumptions like this. Fordham does not actually admit by major, and has general admissions for most programs, meaning they just admit you generally and you declare your major later.

And I would be cautious about this as well. Fordham is obviously not as hard of an admit as, say, Columbia. But Fordham still rejects pleny of applicants, and even more people who would probably like to go to Fordham don’t apply because they know they don’t meet Fordham’s standards.

This is not to say the OP should be afraid to apply to Fordham if they only take three science classes but otherwise meet Fordham’s standards. I just think people should avoid getting in the habit of thinking something like a 50-60% acceptance rate means the college has no standards. It obviously does have standards, but it isn’t getting a lot of applications from people who don’t meet those standards.

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You’re 100% fine not taking AP Bio as long as you do take a Biology class.
Senior year you could take AP Environmental Science if your school offers it (it’s really interesting and one of the few AP classes with Human Geo and Comp Gov where you can immediately see how it applies out in the real world and may even have case studies from the news) but AP CSP as a general introduction to what the various CS/Informatics fields are would be okay for a Humanities major. AP Music Theory ONLY if you are currently an excellent musician who can sight read etc.
As a Humanities major your senior year should include one class in each of the core academic subjects (looks like you’re planning on it) though not necessarily all AP - 1 AP sophomore year, 2 Jr year, 4 senior year would be plenty - but have extra Humanities classes for your 6&7th class - an extra history class, a creative writing or comparative lit class.. even if they’re not AP!

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In fact I am really just trying to pass along what I have seen various AOs for selective colleges say on this subject.

It is complicated for them, because they typically don’t want there to be such hard rules that they can’t admit some great kids they really want just because they haven’t checked some particular box.

At the same time, though, they take the rigor of ALL their own classes seriously, and I think sometimes people don’t remember that colleges like Fordham are not expecting you to only take classes in your major, indeed in most cases they don’t expect you to actually have a major yet.

Fordham in fact is a Jesuit college, and like most it has a pretty robust “core curriculum”:

https://www.fordham.edu/academics/undergraduate-education/core-curriculum/

https://www.fordham.edu/fordham-college-at-rose-hill/academics/core-curriculum/

Using the Rose Hill core as an example, for Natural Science it says:

Through core science courses, students gain understanding of scientific methodology as a way of knowing and an appreciation of the social responsibility and ethics of science. By understanding how reasoning and experimental evidence lead to scientific conclusions, students will develop scientific literacy: the ability to understand the breakthroughs in science, medicine, and technology as educated, creative, and responsible citizens. With knowledge of the basic principles of science, students can evaluate the legal, moral and ethical issues that will affect their lives after they graduate. In the science courses, students develop skills in critical thinking and discernment; qualitative and quantitative reasoning; written and oral communication; formulation, analysis, and solution of complex problems.

Students who are not science majors take modular or integrated courses on various topics. The physical science course covers energy (kinetic and potential, electromagnetic, thermodynamics), matter (atomic and molecular structure, chemical bonding), and interactions (strong, weak, electromagnetic, gravitational). The life science sections cover evolution, genetics and genetic engineering, human biology including nervous and sensory systems, environment, and behavior and learning (classical, operant, and observational). All sections have labs. For those interested in a specific science, this requirement may be met through a two-semester disciplinary introduction with associated labs.

Long story short, you can see why they may want assurances that regardless of intended major, you are coming in well-prepared for these requirements. And while again I don’t think that means you ALWAYS need to take four sciences, it may not be communicating an ideal message if you seem to be avoiding ANY advanced sciences, at least when they are actually offered at your high school.

Again, I don’t want to be overly definitive about any of this, because AOs aren’t either. Still, I think some understanding of what the curriculums actually look like at these colleges, including outside of any intended majors, is useful to help understand what “story” you might want your transcript to be telling.

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Since I was just quoting from the Natural Science portion of the core curriculum page at Fordham (Rose Hill), I will note that the multidisciplinary/applied science sort of approach of AP ES is very much in alignment with the sort of themes Fordham has for its science classes for non-science majors.

So I agree AP ES would be a great choice (if available) for the sort of kid who is not intending to major in science, but finds Fordham’s approach to a natural science education for non-science majors appealing.

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Okay, thank you all for the advice!

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If Fordham is the student’s clear first choice, and if the Net Price Calculator projects it to be affordable, then applying Early Decision would be an option that would leverage the school’s increasing desire to protect yield.

And, I agree that sacrificing AP Lang in order to crowbar AP Bio into the junior year schedule is not necessary. Honors Bio would be fine, but as noted above, an AP science senior year (whichever one is preferred and/or fits the schedule) could be more advantageous than the more elective-ish AP’s (music theory & CSP).

Also, if you’re taking precalc junior year and Calc BC senior year, doubling up on math to take AP Stats junior year as well shouldn’t be a high priority. That might be the place to fit in CSP or music theory if you really want those. If you’ve got Calc BC, adding stats doesn’t really raise the bar in terms of colleges being impressed, and it doesn’t typically count for much in terms of college credit - it’s often better to take a “real” college stats class once you get to college.

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My daughter got into Fordham with one AP, no dual enrollment and a 3.8 GPA at a public high school. As did many of her friends. I feel like people are overthinking this.

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We don’t even know OP’s GPA. Obviously more context could change how posters are responding.

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