Is that because they’ll be selling the nrw version?
No idea- just saw this in my app/key. If anyone is buying or even trying one, I am happy to send a referral link!! 
The real cost of this vehicle will be the tires. After a handful of 0-60 launches it’s off to the tire shop.
Michelins et al are salivating… 
So are the brake manufacturers.
Insurance agents and police officers too . . . .
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Electric Cars Emit More Particulate Pollution
They have greater tire wear, the source of most particulate matter.
Nah. It’s regenerative braking. Very little wear and tear on the brakes in an EV. Never had to have any brake work in the 7 years I’ve driven my EV but I have replaced the tires.
No law against taking off fast.
I don’t drive a Tesla but EVs are crazy responsive and fun to drive because of that instant acceleration and torque and they’re safer, too, in one pedal mode. The millisecond your foot lifts off the accelerator the car begins to slow down before you even have a chance to put your foot on the brake. Saves a ton of wear in the brakes too.
Looks like the right leaning Wall Street Journal op-ed is trying to put the blame on EVs but that’s not what that study you linked said at all.
I’m not sure why this is an EV thing. I think it’s a heavy vehicle thing and an aggressive driving thing which means those glass bowl pick up drivers around me here in the US of A are probably the worst offenders when you don’t include tractor trailer drivers. Pickups are not very common where I have been in Europe where the study took place, but they are ubiquitous in this country and if you want to scroll up in this thread you can find where I posted the figures for how many pickups are on the road in the US vs EVs and it’s a LOT more pickup trucks.
The fundamental trends that drive this ratio are: tailpipe particulate emissions are much lower on new cars, and tire wear emissions increase with vehicle mass and aggressiveness of driving style. Tailpipe emissions are falling over time, as exhaust filters become more efficient and with the prospect of extending the measurement of particulates under the potential future Euro 7 regulation, while tire wear emissions are rising as vehicles become heavier and added power and torque is placed at the driver’s disposal. On current trends, the ratio may well continue to increase.
This test did not even involve EVs at all.
The aggressive legal driving is the result from 2020, which was derived from a Volkswagen Golf driven at legal road speeds on a track, with fast cornering and maximum permitted payload in the vehicle. The normal driving results were averaged across 14 different brands of tire tested on a Mercedes C-Class driven with average dynamics on the road, with just the driver and no payload in the vehicle. All of these tires were tested from new. A smaller number of tires were then tested over their full lifetime in order to estimate the degree to which wear rates declined over time.
The tailpipe real-world emissions were measured across four gasoline mid-sized sports utility vehicles from 2019 and 2020 model years, driven on a mix of urban and motorway routes. The payload was the driver and test equipment only.
The excess emissions under aggressive driving should alert us to a risk with BEVs: greater vehicle mass and torque delivered can lead to rapidly increasing tire particulate emissions. Half a tonne of battery weight can result in tire emissions that are almost 400 more times greater than real-world tailpipe emissions, everything else being equal. Nevertheless, it is important to say that a gentle BEV driver, with the benefit of regenerative braking, can more than cancel out the tire wear emissions from the additional weight of their vehicle, to achieve lower tire wear than an internal combustion engine vehicle driven badly.
What defines a “gentle BEV driver”? How many are required to offset particulate output of the aggressive drivers?
The WSJ piece is highlighting the fact that EVs are not zero emission and the emissions they’re worst at is the type California is claiming they reduce, particulate emissions.
It doesn’t need to. It’s about vehicle weight and its effect on tire wear and particulate emissions. Unless EVs use different tires than ICE car?
Most EV drivers are gentle and don’t use the brakes. I take whole trips in my car where I never touch the brakes until I park. I can come to a complete stop at a light without touching the brake pedal because of regenerative braking in one pedal mode.
The WSJ op-ed is a great example of trying to spin data to their viewpoint. Again as I mentioned up thread a Ford F-150, the best selling vehicle in the US, is a far heavier vehicle than most EVs on the road. So let’s ban pickup trucks instead!
Most of the particulates from tire wear are heavy and end up on the ground. California historically has been particularly concerned with air pollution.
An EV drives differently and brakes much differently than an ICE vehicle and most do use different tires.
And this statement is based on what source?
That depends on how fast. And the LEO.
Exhibition of speed. A person engages in an exhibition of speed when he or she accelerate or drives at a rate of speed that is dangerous and unsafe.
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My statement on EV drivers being more gentle is because It is built into EVs. There definitely are glass bowl EV drivers out there but that’s not most people.
And the study the WSJ linked to did not involve EVs at all. The WSJ opinion writer is just spinning it for his own purposes.
Here’s a good article about what is going on in the tire industry to address particulate emissions and make tires for all vehicles from greener materials. https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/17/23951181/tires-sustainable-rubber-bridgestone-michelin
@sushiritto As far as I can tell in my state there is no law against “exhibition of speed”. Drag racing is illegal but I can see anything that sounds like it would cover “peeling out”. I think the most a person could get would be a ticket for reckless driving but that might be hard to get to stick with no harm no foul. There are some crazy drivers around here for sure, but most of the ones I’ve seen are not EV drivers. They are either driving big jacked up pickup trucks with massive tires (thankfully the “rolling coal” fad seems to be fading), or hot hatches like old Hondas or Toyotas or Hyundais —maybe a VW if they’re lucky— with glasspacks for the exhaust, or motorcycles. We’ve got a big group of dirt bike riders around here who try to illegally take over the streets and do wheelies and just drive like they have a death wish.
The study was about car weight and tire wear. Spin it anyway you want but heavier cars produce more tire wear and emit more particulate pollution because there is no way to filter those particles. Overall EV sedans weigh more than ICE sedans and EV SUVs weigh more than ICE SUVs. If the goal is to replace ICE vehicles with EV vehicles, this is a pollution consequence.
tires create more than double the particle number emissions of the tailpipe, averaged across those two fuel types. Put another way, tires may release an extra sixty billion particles for every kilometre driven.
It was a European study. The cars in the road in the US are different and the heaviest vehicles in the US are the best selling Ford F-150 and other pick up trucks so those drivers are causing more problems with tire particulates than EV drivers if it’s all about weight.
The tire industry is addressing making tires from more sustainable materials. Read that article I linked. It will be a good long while before there are more EVs on the road than there are pick up trucks, not to mention ICE vehicles as a whole.
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There is in California.
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Dug up those numbers I found before about vehicle weight:
And just a reminder that the Ford F-150 is the best selling vehicle in the USA. Here’s a link: The 25 Bestselling Cars, Trucks, and SUVs of 2023
Here are the top selling new cars in the US for 2023 for those who don’t want to click the link. I have added in the weights according to Edmunds since we are concerned about vehicle weight and wear and tear on the tires. Curb weight is how much the vehicle weighs empty (obviously not adding much wear to the tires if it’s empty and no one is driving it) and gross weight is how much it weighs with its max load. And honestly the kind of tire really makes a HUGE difference because some wear down much faster than others so it is not just about the vehicles but even moreso about the kind of tire, how fast it wears, what it’s made of, etc.
- Ford F-Series (750,789 units sold) gross weight: 6,470 lbs. curb weight: 4,705 lbs
- Chevy Silverado (543,319 units sold) gross weight: 7,000 lbs. curb weight: 5,000 lbs
- Ram Pickup (444,926 units sold) gross weight: 6,700 lbs. curb weight: 4,920 lbs
- Toyota RAV4 (434,943 units sold) gross weight: 4,610 lbs curb weight: 3,370
- Tesla Model Y (385,900 units sold, estimated) Electric Vehicle curb weight: 4,154 lbs. Edmunds does not list a gross weight for the Model Y but I found one on InsideEVs which has it at 5,302 lbs
- Honda CR-V (361,457 units sold) curb weight: 3,472 (no gross weight listed)
- GMC Sierra (295,737 units sold) gross weight: [6,800 lbs.](https://6,800 lbs.) curb weight: 4,760 lbs.
- Toyota Camry (290,649 units sold) curb weight: 3,310 lbs.
- Nissan Rogue (271,458 units sold) gross weight: 4,564 lbs.
- Jeep Grand Cherokee (244,595 units sold) curb weight: 3,452
- Toyota Tacoma (234,768 units sold) gross weight: 5,775, curb weight 4,265
- Tesla Model 3 (232,700 units sold, estimated) Electric Vehicle
- Toyota Corolla (232,370 units sold)
- Chevy Equinox (212,701 units sold)
- Hyundai Tucson (209,624 units sold)
- Honda Civic (200,381 units sold)
- Honda Accord (197,947 units sold)
- Ford Explorer (186,799 units sold)
- Toyota Highlander (169,543 units sold)
- Subaru Outback (161,814 units sold)
- Subaru Crosstrek (159,193 units sold)
- Jeep Wrangler (156,581 units sold)
- Mazda CX-5 (153,808 units sold)
- Subaru Forester (152,566 units sold)
- Ford Escape (140,968 units sold)
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