Will you buy an electric or hybrid car next?

Parent Cafe
2440

The fact that pick up trucks are heavier than some EVs is not relevant. The point of the WSJ article is that California is banning ICE vehicles because of emissions and they’re replacing them with……wait for it…. EVs that produce more emissions than the ICE vehicles. The person that’s driving an ICE F150 will replace it with an EV pick up truck not a Chevy bolt. So if you’re replacing ICE vehicles with EV vehicles, you’re basically replacing a heavy vehicle with a heavier vehicle. And the same goes for sedans and SUVs. The EV version of all of those cars is heavier than the ICE version.

The Lightning weighs 6,500 pounds—more than 35 percent more than the gas-powered model. That’s in large part because of an immovable weight at its core: an 1,800-pound battery. Part of that is just the nature of electric vehicles: The Tesla Model 3 weighs 1,000 pounds more than a Honda Civic. The more luxurious Tesla Model S weighs 1,200 pounds more than a Lexus ES 350.

But when the car is as big as an F-150, apparently, the weight gain gets bigger. When rival GMC’s electric Hummer hits lots, that behemoth will weigh more than 9,000 pounds.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a46031051/2024-tesla-cybertruck-ford-f-150-lightning-rivian-r1t-specs-compared/

Tesla says the AWD Cybertruck weighs 6603 pounds; the Cyberbeast—with its extra electric motor—is 240 pounds heavier still, at 6843 pounds. However, we can’t verify either claim, and it’s likely that neither includes the optional range-extender battery, which could easily weigh over 1000 pounds. The F-150 Lighting Platinum and Rivian R1T Quad-Motor we tested had curb weights of 6855 and 7173 pounds, respectively.

To get a better idea of the weight of these EV trucks, we discovered the Cybertruck’s gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), which is between 8001 and 10,000 pounds. GVWR is the maximum weight of a vehicle and everything on board (passengers, payload, etc.). For comparison, the R1T has an 8532-pound GVWR, and the Lightning’s GVWR’s is between 8250 and 8550 pounds.

2 Likes
2441

This is not factual.

First the WSJ piece is not a new article. It is an opinion piece. There’s a big difference.

Secondly and more importantly California is not “banning ICE vehicles”. They are potentially requiring all NEW vehicle sales after 2035 to be EVs. There is a big difference there too. It’s hard to imagine that more ICE vehicles will not still be on the road then.

EVs are much more popular in California than in most of the rest of the US but even so Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) account for only 21.4% of sales of new vehicles in California in 2023. This leaves 78.6% of new vehicles on the road as ICE vehicles and there are far more used ICE vehicles on the road than BEVs so you’re looking at a much lower percentage of BEVs overall. I’m sure sales of EVs will continue to increase but I don’t see there being more BEVs on the road in 2035 than ICE vehicles.

That just pure conjecture on your part. I used to drive a Nissan Xterra SUV and replaced it with a smaller car. Plenty of people went to smaller cars in the 1970s gas crisis. You have no idea what people will do.

So your logic is all wrong here. You don’t know that a person who had been driving a Ford F-150 and gets ready to buy a new vehicle in 2035 is going to want another truck. That’s a huge assumption. No one is replacing ICE vehicles with BEVs 1 to 1. And who knows what the market will be in 2035.

(Also, very few people in the EV community like Cybertrucks. They are ridiculous. )

AND it is a TIRE problem not a vehicle problem. And tire manufacturers are working on solutions.

If you watched any IndyCar road course race this year, basically any of the half-dozen events where the drivers had to turn right as well as left, you might have noticed some green flashes on those cars’ tires. It wasn’t just a visual flair to an otherwise visually dull part of the equation.

Those tires contained guayule, part of an agrarian prototype effort from Bridgestone, the supplier of spec tires for that series. It’s a high-profile demonstration of a new domestically sourced, renewable source of rubber that augments other natural sources like that from the hevea tree and even the Russian dandelion.

Bridgestone’s Bill Niaura, executive director of sustainable innovation and circular economy, says guayule is a drop-in replacement with many potential advantages. Chief among them? Location: “Hevea trees are primarily grown in Southeast Asia,” he says, “while guayule is grown in the Southwestern US.”

This is also a climate resiliency play. Guayule provides an alternate drought-resistant source for natural rubber at a time when global temperature patterns are behaving like the stock market: highly unpredictable but trending upward.

1 Like
2442

Someone who drives reasonably and gets EPA or better economy on electricity (or fuel in an ICEV) and who gets the rated treadwear mileage out of tires.

But lots of drivers, whether in EVs or ICEVs, drive aggressively (often pointlessly, like hard acceleration when the next traffic light just turned red ahead) and then complain about poor fuel economy and tire treadwear.

The general trend toward bigger and heavier vehicles, whether EV or ICEV, also does not help in the aspect of tire treadwear.

1 Like
2443

That WSJ op-ed is blatant partisanship and spin and conjecture. It’s a shame people don’t have more critical thinking skills and fall for this kind of BS.

After the same kind of BS was floating around in the UK they did another study actually looking at EVs this time since the original study the anti-EV crowd twisted did not even test EVs. The study commissioned by the RAC (similar to AAA) found that EVs had much less non-exhaust emissions (particulate matter pollution) from brake and tire (or tyre in Br Eng) wear. Folks can read the whole thing here: Do EVs produce more pollution? | RAC Drive and here is the conclusion:

So, in conclusion, electric vehicles already vastly reduce particulate matter from brake wear, and claims of tyre wear contributing 1,000 times the particulate matter pollution of petrol and diesel exhausts are greatly overexaggerated. Real EV fleets are already seeing brake lifespans increased fourfold versus the diesel vehicles they have replaced, and tyre wear that is broadly on par with petrol and diesel cars (unless, as like with any vehicle, the drivers get a bit throttle happy!).

One final thought on emissions to end with: the UK is set to close its last remaining coal-fired power plants, but even if EVs were 100% powered by coal, it is much easier to fit particulate filters to a small number of very large, static power plants located away from city centres, than it is to fit effective filters to millions of small, mobile petrol and diesel engines running in urban areas.

The end result is that cities that have embraced EVs have already demonstrably benefitted from reduced pollution and improved air quality, and this trend shall only continue as more EVs switch to drum brakes, new tyres are developed that reduce nanoparticulate pollution even further, and the UK’s grid becomes ever increasingly powered by clean renewable energy.

And please everyone consider the source and read critically when spreading info around. There is too much partisan mis-information slanted one way or the other out there.

4 Likes
2444

I think the issue with EV technology is in the short-term the emission pollution is decreased. However, as more EV’s get into circulation other environmental problems have/will arise. For instance, battery disposal, rare mineral mining, and the toxic components. Five or ten years ago the adoption of EV cars was not substantial; but now, with many states mandating EV and phasing out ICE vehicles a whole different set of pollutants will take center stage. Additionally, many of the EV’s are made up of carbon fiber materials… which are made from petroleum.

2445

Regarding battery disposal and rare mineral mining, businesses are noticing that mining the rare minerals from worn out batteries can be easier than mining it from tons of dirt. Car and battery companies also have economic incentives to minimize or eliminate expensive minerals like cobalt. Regarding toxic components, it is not like gasoline and used engine oil are non-toxic.

You may be thinking of the BMW i3 and Aptera, but those are relative niche vehicles. Most EVs’ non-battery components are made the usual vehicle materials like steel, aluminum, glass, and plastic.

2 Likes
2446

In my case, driving an EV has made me a gentler driver. I strive to maximize economy which means accelerating slowly and driving more slowly in general.

Which means very little braking (or tire wear).

3 Likes
2447

I think investing in rooftop solar for 20 to 25k makes more sense than spending that same amount on an EV.

Rooftop solar will last for 25 years. It raises the value of your home. And with electric rates rising higher every year, we save a lot of money especially in the summer months running the AC.

But we have an ICE vehicle, a Pacifica. More room to travel with the grandkids. One car is more energy efficient than two. Space for hauling. Space for the sports equipment etc. And I have a 400 to 500 mile range depending. No spending an hour charging. No worries about finding a charger.

2448

And it’s so much fun to take off from a light and leave the non EV BMW or Porsche in the next lane in the dust! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

1 Like
2449

We have an older ICE (2010 Lexus) and a 2014 Tesla. To get out of our neighborhood we have to make a left on a busy street. Easier to do in the Tesla for sure!

The Lexus has been solid but we’re starting to shop for its replacement. Thinking a hybrid. H is a big fan of Consumer Reports which recommends the BMW X5 PHEV for a luxury hybrid SUV. We already have a 240-volt charger, and figured in another car when we purchased our solar last year. I just worry about the reliability of a BMW. Had a Mercedes many years ago that was the CR pick for its class that was a total PIA (of course when it went out of warranty).

2450

I love my EV. But I’m traveling now and needed to rent a car; range anxiety kicked in at the rental counter so I opted for an ICE car.

2451

That’ll depend on which model Porsche or BMW you’re racing against, the road you’re driving and the driver.
:wink:

2452

Plastic is a petroleum (hydrocarbon) product. We have several friends in the environmental recycle space. Unfortunately, the cost to mine the “expired” batteries and repurpose is too expensive at this point to be worth it. Technology needs to advance much more for this to be a viable option. There is a big difference in 1-5% EV ownership and over 50%.

1 Like
2453

Here’s a good video about the EV lithium ion battery recycling process . https://youtu.be/s2xrarUWVRQ

1 Like
2454

Yes there are companies working to recycle batteries. If you look closely at funding most have been given substantial grants from the federal government.

2455

Hi - haven’t been on this thread but looking for advice for son. He’s been driving a 2002 Corolla since we bought it used in 2004; now well over 100,000 miles. It hasn’t had any major issues and is more or less in good shape according to a shop that son took it to for a tune up/check up last fall. But there are lots of little issues and he agrees it’s time to start looking.

Son lives in an apartment in Seattle and parks in the garage, which does not have any charging stations. He mainly drives short distances for errands, occasionally a half hour commute, and infrequently one or two hour trips outside the city. He does not want to be dependent on charging so thinks a hybrid is the best choice. Although price is certainly a consideration, he could buy a new car without financing.

So - should he buy new or used? What would be the top choices for models in each situation? He does not care about fancy or upscale; just wants a very reliable basic four door. Preferably blue :).

Other than going for test drives, how could he initiate the process of finding a car? He’s a big procrastinator and hates making decisions so whatever process is the simplest and involves the least interaction is best. He would love it if I could just say, get XXX car at YYY place and don’t add anything except ZZZ. I’m familiar with the advice from decades ago on dealing with car salesmen, and bought myself a new car in 2015, but don’t know how the landscape has changed - if it has.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

2456

If he buys new, many of the cheaper models that used to be available have been discontinued.

If he buys used, there are additional risks of hidden damage or defects that need to be inspected for.

If he wants a used hybrid, perhaps a Ford C-Max may be worth a look.

2457

Hi, bumping this thread to see if anyone else had suggestions or advice. Posters must all be over on the EV charging thread! :grinning:

Also wondering if rental agencies have hybrid cars because that seems like a good way to try out a car without the formality and restrictions of a test drive from a dealership.

2458

My adult kid just bought a pre owned Ford fusion and loves it. My kids all shop on line for cars ahead of time but we still have them go through a dealer to avoid potential disasters with hidden issues with the vehicles. Costs more to go through the dealer and have it declared certified but for us it is worth the peace of mind.
The refreshing part is that there is very little haggling and less upselling compared to car purchasing in the past.
Good luck. Around here pre owned hybrids are in short supply. But can be found.

1 Like
2459

I’ve read that sedans are a good buy as more people want an suv or a crossover. If he’s going to keep it for a longtime I’d consider buying a new or newer model Toyota, Honda or Subaru. Some of the small sedans with gas engines get great mileage. For as little as he drives might not be worth paying the extra for the hybrid.
One of mine drove a ton of miles in a Honda HRV with no issues. She just sold it with 80,000 miles on it. It’s a small crossover. My son drives an older Subaru crostrex which he has had good luck with.
In the past I’ve used the Costco service but I don’t know how that works presently. When my sil was buying his car he knew what he wanted and emailed numerous dealers to get the best price.

2 Likes