DD drives a Toyota Camry. She loves it. It’s a 2012…so getting up there in years. It wouldn’t surprise me if she replaces it with another Camry.
DS drives a Crosstrek. He loves it.
Neither have hybrid cars.
1 Like
Big kid drives a hybrid RAV4. Little kid will be getting one in a couple of weeks to replace the old car she and her husband have been driving for ages.
1 Like
If people can buy used ICE vehicles, AND go out of state to buy new ICE vehicles, who really cares about this ban?
“The rules do not stop residents in these states from owning or using gas-powered cars, nor do they force consumers to buy electric vehicles (EVs). Dealerships can still sell used cars powered by gas, and consumers in these states can purchase the gas-powered vehicles in other states – as long as they meet certain emissions standards.”
I find it hard to believe that the ban on selling ICE cars will really go into effect by 2035. I would expect it to at least be modified to allow plug in hybrids.
It is much easier to put in a ban that will hit in ten or eleven years. It is relatively more difficult to make it stick when the time comes unless the infrastructure is in place and the cars are available.
2 Likes
I agree, but even if implemented people can go to another state and buy whatever they want.
Many new car buyers buy off the lot. They will buy what they can choose from. Some may deal with the inconvenience of traveling elsewhere to get an ICE car, but if the goal is to clean up the air in these states, its a starting point to stop selling them in the state.
I just replaced a Subaru Forester. We were looking for something with leather, power passenger seat, and good gas mileage. We went back and forth on the ICE vs. hybrid question, did a bunch of gas mileage number crunching, and had a long chat and more number crunching with a friend who has a PHEV. We ended up with a new Ford Escape PHEV. The math worked because Ford was offering 0% and it qualifies for the $3750 tax credit. It was the only car in our budget in that class with a useful power passenger seat also, although I had been ready to toss that requirement out of frustration. Looked hard at CRV, Ford Maverick, RAV, and finally took a look at the Escape and were surprised it ticked the boxes.
I’ve had it more than a month, have driven over 1000 miles, and still have not had to put gas in the tank. I calculated we’ve spent under $15 charging the car at home, and used about 7-8 gal of gas. Expecting the all-electric miles To go down when it gets hotter and I have to run the AC full time. But I love the car.
Trying to buy a PHEV was interesting. The whole haggling thing was as bad as ever in our area. We had several try to make us pay a market adjustment,on several different makes. We first considered the Toyota Rav Prime, and none were available in our area. Even the other rav hybrids weren’t available. The dealers would just say they weren’t that great on gas mileage anyway and try to sell you an ICE version. Honda CRV hybrids were easy to find and we almost bought one, but a dealer annoyed us by showing us a very high Costco price while advertising a lower price on their website. No idea why they thought that was a good idea. We gave up on the Costco thing saving us any money at that point. Then once we decided we wanted the Escape, several dealers didn’t understand or didn’t want to deal with the tax credit. We had to verify everything, and one dealer lost the sale because they said they weren’t able to do the tax credit at point of sale (the rules changed in January). Some wanted a market adjustment, while others were selling the identical car at a discount. We did all our negotiating without going into the dealer. Fun times.
4 Likes
Not sure it will matter a whole lot in the big picture. The adoption curve in many of those states involved suggests that most new vehicles sold will be EVs by 2035 anyway.
25% of new vehicle sales last year in CA were EVs. Growing at a rate of around 20% YOY. The math is pretty compelling.
So sure, if CA bans the sale of ICEVs, VCRs and members only jackets by 2035, Californians can always go to Nevada for their nostalgia fix.
I suspect by 2035, the inability to buy a new ICEV won’t matter to most because they’ll have already made the transition.
Here is the Massachusetts dashboard. I don’t know the percentage sold last year, but our overall number is low.
Last utility rate increase now puts us at .55 kWh for charging at home. No, not an EV plan…but a medical baseline plan which we have been advised by 3 different reps from the utility company is our better option.
So, this is the first and last EV for this household. In the irony that only CA can manage to accomplish…my local Tesla Super Charger is .35/Kwh (at least for now). So…life now revolves around charging at that location or driving the 10 year old ICE which is cheaper to run.
1 Like
I think the relevant measure is EV share of new car sales. This is a tough data set to get reliable info on but most of the generally accepted sources I’ve seen had MA somewhere in the 10-11% range last year, which is about where CA was just a few years ago.
With double digit YOY growth rates and charging infrastructure projects accelerating rapidly in the next few years, it’s looking pretty much inevitable that EVs will be the vast majority of new car sales well before 2035 in states like MA.
As you point out, that doesn’t mean most cars on the road will be EVs. Just that not many people will choose to buy new ICEVs regardless of state policy.
I know the regional ISO is expecting 2035 targets to be met and planning for that; they are generally data oriented.
There aren’t great public sales by state data but here’s an example:
https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/percentage-of-electric-cars-in-us.html#num4
If you have PG&E, $0.55/kWh seems to be more expensive than off-peak pricing on all rate plans listed at https://www.pge.com/assets/pge/docs/account/rate-plans/residential-electric-rate-plan-pricing.pdf.coredownload.pdf . You would have to be charging or otherwise using electricity during the expensive times of day to be paying $0.55/kWh or more.
Seems like they advised you to get the best option for them.
We have a standard baseline Kwh allotment. Then an additional allotment because of the medical baseline program which almost doubles the kWh in tier 1. If we drop the medical baseline we pop into the .55 kwh rate much sooner each billing cycle. We will then be paying that higher rate for a larger number of hours. We will never stay in tier one (even with the medical allowance). the calculation works out to medical baseline program working in our favor.
That said…it might actually be to the point where running the house on the propane generator a day or two a week is financially beneficial. Haven’t done that math yet. Going to wait another billing cycle or two and one more tank fill…then …do the spreadsheet.
Have you considered solar? I know it requires an upfront investment, but it shields from rate increases and provides peace of mind.
We had a solar system priced out at 65K for outright purchase. The lease/rental agreement had a number of parts which were not appealing.
If you don’t create enough power - you have to true up at the end of the year.
There were numerous clauses - along the lines of if we determine a tree caused too much shade - then you would be penalized.
The particular company had a terrible reputation online when it came to maintaining their systems as well as many, many problems when a home owner tried to transfer the lease agreement upon sale of the home.
If a new buyer doesn’t want the solar system - for whatever reason - then the home owner is stuck buying out the lease.
We would need a large number of panels to cover our needs.
The whole sale pitch didn’t leave us feeling warm and fuzzy. And frankly, since we expect to be in this house another 10 and at most 15 years…we will barely have made it to the break even point. CA has removed many of the incentives for putting in solar and is actively putting in disincentives (the ‘buy back’ pricing) for solar.
IF/when we get to a point where ‘my’ solar system doesn’t have to connect to the grid but rather supplies ME until I need to draw from the grid…I will look at that option again.
3 Likes
0-60 in less than a second… We’ll see how long until we read an article about an owner crashing because they pass out while testing/showing off the acceleration…
2 Likes
That seems like a huge system for residential installation (~20kW). Do you use a lot of electricity overall, or is your location so heavily shaded that you need a much bigger system than if you had a sunny location?
That’s what batteries are for – either going off-grid completely, or storing electricity generated in the mid day for your own use in the evening when the rates from the grid are highest.
1 Like
Multiple companies quoted over $100K for our house, which is one reason we didn’t proceed.
3 Likes
Was that for you to buy it or some sort of after financing price? I know sometimes solar sales can be shady with lease type arrangements but you are usually better off just buying it.
I’m sure you know your own situation but in CA it really shouldn’t cost more than $3/watt to buy a system. Add maybe 15-20k for a 13kwh battery and you’d be in good shape. Then take 30% off the total cost due to the federal tax credit, which can carry forward.
If you’re using as much electricity as you say at those sorts of rates this would be a great investment for you.
I’m not a Tesla person but the new PW 3 has dropped installation costs a bit too.
1 Like