William and Mary (full tuition [$41k]) or UVA year in Wise [then transfer to UVA with 3.0 college GPA]?

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Hi all, class of ‘28 here! First time posting here. I was recently admitted into W&M after being waitlisted at UVA. I’m having trouble narrowing down which option to go with as UVA offers a deferred admission pathway.

UVA offers a program where waitlisted in state students can transfer to Charlottesville after going to their campus at Wise (rural, very small, appalachian mountains bordering TN) for a year as long as they have a 3.0 gpa. To be honest, I have wanted to go to UVA since my junior year so this offer is tempting!

Some things to note include that I want to major in public health and go into either law or medicine (not sure which yet :sweat_smile:) and I know W&M doesn’t have a public health major as of rn, the closest thing would be kinesiology with a concentration in public health which honestly doesn’t interest me… I would be a bio major at W&M and idk how to feel about that :smiling_face_with_tear: It’s something I knew when I applied and I applied anyway soo

The other issue is that W&M is asking for around 41K a year. I’m in state and I was given 0 aid. The price is doable for my family, but I do have little siblings and I just want to be assured that the school will be worth that price compared to UVA. From what I’ve gathered online, W&M is a great school but to most people it’s not worth that much. I was at their admitted students day and did feel welcomed, but i’ve heard things about their dorms and food that are not worth full tuition :grimacing:

UVA would probably be similar in price, but they do have the major I want. Additionally, the 4+1 program they offer to get a MPH is something that really interests me! Though it’s worth noting that the public health major has limited spots and I’d have to apply for it sophomore year.

Also, my first year at Wise would probably be a bit cheaper which is a plus. I’m just worried about the campus being so small and isolated especially as a POC, and it would be 9 hours from home. My parents are extremely concerned about this and they don’t think I’d be able to handle being that far away. For context, W&M is only 1.5 hours away and my parent works nearby.

Final things I wanna mention: I do think UVA’s main campus would bring me out of my shell as I am an introvert, but I do know not being at Charlottesville for the first year will significantly impact my social life. W&M is less social from what I hear? Nothing wrong with that, I’m introverted myself but I do want to go somewhere that would balance that out.

I’m just scared I’ll regret passing on a good 4 year school for what may be a miserable first year and difficult social and academic transition as a sophomore. I’ve always wanted my first year in college to be an opportunity for me to break out of my shell and go to football games, build those first year connections etc. and i’m scared i’ll miss out on this at Wise :frowning: On the other hand I’m also scared I’ll regret passing on a ticket to UVA, a school I’ve wanted to attend for a while.

Last minute side note; I was accepted into VT as a public health major but I’m not really considering it anymore though it is cheaper (30k/year). Just weighing the two options of W&M and the year in wise at this point.

Thank you if you read all of this! I would love to hear your input and any advice would be greatly appreciated! :slight_smile:

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Reason for not considering VT even though it is less expensive and you got into your desired major? Would the reason apply to W&M, UVA Wise, or UVA?

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Honestly my family and I narrowed it down to it being a better engineering school than anything. It wouldn’t really fit my pre-law/pre-med ambitions. Another factor is that it’s a similar distance from home as Wise, so my parents said I might as well go for the UVA degree if I’m going that far away.

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Pre-law can be done with any major at any reasonable college.

Pre-med can be done with any major that you can fit the pre-med course requirements into or around at any reasonable college that offers those pre-med courses.

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VTech has excellent non tech majors and a national reputation for public health.

UVA Wise is nothing like UVA. If you’re an introvert, you double the struggle: first, at Wise, most students commute, so that leaves very few people in the dorms whom to befriend. Second, you’d then move to UVA in Charlottesville and you’d have to find new friends.

I’d choose VTech over Wise, or W&M if it’s affordable and you can find a major closer to your interests.

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W&M is a great school but it’s not UVA.

It doesn’t sound like W&M is for you academically speaking though.

Good luck.

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Speaking as someone with an MPH, I think there are better routes into public health at W&M, than the Kinesiology major you mention.

For example, there’s a health and medicine concentration within Sociology that could definitely be customized to a public health focus. (W&M Concentrations in Sociology)

The Public Policy major could also be a good option, if your interests tend in that direction.

Also, to be really in demand in the public health field, I’d consider doing an undergrad major in Data Science, with a Capstone project in the public health sphere. Or a data science minor with a soci or public policy major.

IMHO, any combination of those three could lay an excellent foundation.

None of that means that I think you necessarily should choose W&M over the UVA Wise transfer path (or the public health major at VT). But I don’t think the lack of an acceptable public-health-related major should be the reason. You could definitely bend any of the majors above toward a focus in public health, and skip the whole kinesiology thing that is more geared toward pre-PT and other clinical fields.

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You’re definitely right about that but I think W&M and UVA (main campus of course) have wayyy better resources for pre med and pre law. W&M having their own law school, UVA having their own med school and law school, not only that but the advisory for both are arguably much better. And I do think the school you go to plays a role in what law or med school one gets admitted to. Regardless we just ruled it out as it is so far from home, and it would be more beneficial for me to take the opportunity to go to the school I’ve always wanted to go to, UVA, if I were to go that far from home.

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Yeah honestly I was never really interested in the kinesiology path, you technically do not declare your major at W&M until sophomore or junior year but on my application I had put down biology. The sociology path you mentioned definitely sparks my interest! I have thought about minoring in data science but ultimately, my goal would be either law or med school, so I don’t know how necessary that would be. It does seem good to have that just in case. They also do have a public health minor, so that is worth mentioning. Thank you for the advice

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It is worth mentioning there’s about 100 year in wise students every year and they do stick together. They dorm together and are in the same classes, there’s also trips that the YIW coordinator puts together many times throughout the year like kayaking, hiking etc. I’m just worried about missing out on that classic freshman year experience which I would have to sacrifice. I do recognize your point about the difficulty of the transfer, both socially and academically. I touched upon that in my post. It’s also worth considering that I would be going with that group of 100 kids to Charlottesville, but I still think that transition is going to be hard and I honestly can’t say how comfortable I’d be. I know that freshman year is an environment that can never be recreated; that distance from home and adjusting to college life makes everyone 10x more willing to make friends from what I hear. So the friend groups would be pretty locked in at that point. But many people transfer to UVA every year, from community college or other institutions and they seem to do fine. I don’t think I would transfer from another 4 year institution though when I have a guaranteed path to UVA right in front of me where all my credits would smoothly transfer as long as I have a 3.0

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I think you are right to be skeptical that doing your first year at a different college is really all that attractive. You only get to be a college freshman once, and I would not discount doing it the way you want to.

I also agree that you have a lot of different ways of exploring Public Health at William & Mary. First, they have a Public Health minor:

Second, if you are thinking of med school you will be focusing on the required courses anyway. If you end up more interested in law, you can really do whatever you like, but William & Mary has great programs in Government and Public Policy, either of which I think it would make sense to combine with a Public Health minor:

Finally, I agree with not writing off Virginia Tech just because it is best-known for engineering. In fact, per the latest NCES College Navigator database, Virginia Tech graduated 107 students with Public Health as their primary major. That’s a lot!

But if you strongly prefer William & Mary, and can afford it, of course that is fine too.

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And in fact UVA is not William & Mary.

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For med school, it doesn’t- it’s all on you getting straight As in your major&being in the top 20% in your premed pre-reqs plus joining volunteering activities with a refugee/homeless/absued families shelter and/or finding clinical opportunities and/or doing research in your field and/or everything else that sparks your interest, and balancing it all. The algorithm that does the 1st cut doesn’t even include the name of your school or your major.

For Law school, the key factor is LSAT×GPA. Your university’s name matters to a certain extent, but only if you attend Williams or Yale (Ivy+/NESCAC etc) and apply to a handful of specific Law schools hoping to clerk at SCOTUS OR if 2 VA applicants with the same GPA are compared and one attended ODU/Radford and the other UVA/WM/VT (and even then they might prefer the possibly more exceptional, pluckier, articulate ODU/Radford applicant…) The 3 flagships are… flagships, seen as equal (and VTech is a powerhouse in Public Health - not trying to convince you about VT but just so your sense of prestige doesn’t factor into your decision: for law school admission purpose, all 3 are equivalent.)

Why is UVA your dream school?
(Are you especially interested in Greek life btw?)

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You don’t really need advisory - it’s a nice to have - and you’re planning to transfer to UVA (or be at W&M) - so that won’t be an issue.

Plenty of kids do just fine with crappy or no advising - it’s not hard to read a flow sheet or requirement sheet.

If you want to be close to home, than W&M would be it - and I’m not sure where you live, but if I had to guess, CNU would be even closer to home and is a fine school - albeit a bit smaller than W&M - and as you mentioned cost, would be less.

If you want a four year experience, you have one school.

If you want a one and three year experience, you have another.

Forget that UVA was always the dream - that’s easy when you’re a kid - where do you see the better experience over the next four years - that’s where you should go?

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This is correct -but my comment was not based on “pedigree” which as you know I think is overrated.

My comment was based on the OP really wanting UVA for reasons that they always wanted it (typically not a good reason but they are entitled) and she didn’t see an academic / i.e. major fit - although they are likely not looking deep enough there. They also had concern with cost.

You are implying I’m saying W&M is not the same level as UVA - and that wasn’t the intent of that comment.

The OP clearly wants UVA and feels as if they are settling for W&M - and now are weighing the 1/3 vs. 4 year experience.

W&M is wonderful and many would choose it straight up over UVA - mine would have (didn’t even apply to UVA).

But in OP’s case, they seem to favor UVA and right or wrong, looking at W&M as settling.

Given the UVA-Wise program, I can see it as a nice fit for OP - sort of like an Emory Oxford - start small and move up.

At the same time, OP has concerns with distance - and it sounds like they’re from the Norfolk area and Wise is a heck of a distance away - and if that’s a concern, then W&M makes perfect sense.

To OP, I think - no matter which avenue you pick, you’ll have an awesome experience - if you take advantage of all the resources offered.

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You have received some great specific advice. I would more generally consider the following 10 basic ideas…

  1. Cheaper isn’t always better and the cheapest option should not be the de facto starting point for preference.
  2. Social, academic and financial fit are all very important in determining happiness and eventual outcomes and should be considered equally.
  3. You can’t attend a school unless you can afford to pay for it, but sometimes modest amounts of debt are worth it.
  4. Prestige and name recognition don’t always matter but often they do. For international students and those interested in specific careers, certain top tier schools out perform lower ranked schools. This difference becomes more acute as the disparity in ratings, prestige or name recognition becomes greater.
  5. These decisions and discussions are personal and based on family value systems and unique financial circumstances. Consequently no one should pass judgement on the conclusions or priorities of others.
  6. While it may seem helpful to hear about other kids specific experiences assuming that your experience will be the same is risky. Your response to any comments beginning with the term “my kid” should be taken with a grain of salt in terms of its personal relevance. First hand experience however is always more valuable than “searched” second hand info.
  7. No matter how well intended, anyone giving you advice will be basing that advice upon their own biases and as justification for their prior decisions. It is human nature.
  8. If someone always offers the same answer they aren’t listening to the question.
  9. The value of free advice from strangers is often equal to what you are paying for it (including mine).
  10. Listen to and respect everyone but only follow the advice of GCs, confirmed experts, your parents (or kids observations) and others who know you or your kid the best.

Good luck.

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I understand you’ve always wanted UVA, but you have two other fantastic options. If it were the Wise route or nothing else strong in-state, I could see doing it. But you could spend four years at W&M or Tech, both excellent schools, without being so far from home in that part of very very rural VA. I particularly agree with your concern about being a POC there.

And, personally, I’d do W&M over Tech: the path you’re interested in is one that you can reach many different ways, so it’s better not to be locked into a major (one of the things I don’t like about Tech; I’ve heard stories of kids who want to change majors having to take an extra year). You’ll have the opportunity to explore and figure out what path makes sense for your goals. Also I think W&M makes sense for an introvert who still wants a social life; they have a football team, so going to game is an option, and the area around campus is bustling. The kids from our HS who go to W&M are generally smart and nice and interesting, social but not hard partiers.

Good luck, whatever you decide!

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You do not need a public health major. Many elite schools do not have that, and they send graduates to law school and med school all the time. There are plenty of classes at W&M on epidemiology, public policy about health, genetics, statistics etc.

William and Mary is a top school for getting into law or medicine. In many ways due to smaller classes(many seminars even freshman year) and low student/faculty ratio can make it easier to get involved with professor’s work/research early . William and Mary is picked over UVA by many top-of-the class high school kids who prefer the smaller undergrad environment, campus, etc. I know many students who have attended over the years and it definitely social. UVa is more expensive year 2-4 than WM is year 2-4, so Wise plus 3 yrs at UVA will cost the same as 4 years at W&M, more if you do the 4+1.

Wise is a fine program, but look into the details of the courses–it is not the same rigor of the courses that you would get at UVA and William&Mary. You may not be eligible for the 4+1 MPH coming from wise.

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Oh, you’re right, I missed that there’s a public health minor! I dug into that a little, to make sure that it wasn’t just a mashup of the same courses from the sociology track, but it isn’t; interestingly, the core public health classes are housed in the kinesiology department. (That’s unusual, but not a problem so long as they have faculty who specialize in public health, which they do.) The minor gives you a way to access that specialty area (in a way that’s noted as part of your degree) without having to do a bunch of exercise science stuff that isn’t your thing. And the classes cover the important foundational areas in public health. In my opinion, the health-oriented track of the sociology major, paired with the public heath minor, looks just as good as most undergrad public health majors. (Just because a college calls something a major doesn’t mean it isn’t cobbled together from multiple departments, especially in an interdisciplinary field like public health.) There’s also a data science track within the public health minor, fwiw, in addition to other interesting options. Program: Public Health, Minor - William & Mary - Acalog ACMS™

In fact, the public health major at UVA is similar in terms of piggybacking on other programs. There are two different tracks. The Global Public Health major is really a track within the broader program in Global Studies. And the 4+1 track bolsters the undergrad coursework by dovetailing the undergrad program with MPH coursework that starts in senior year and continues into a fifth year. Neither is a true standalone undergrad public health major. Is either a good fit for you? If you want an MPH, then the 4+1 track could be a great option. Or, if you specifically prefer a focus on global issues, health in the developing world, etc., then the Global track could fit your interests well. But, if your grad-school interests are focused on law or med school and you don’t want to do a fifth year to get an MPH, and you are more interested in health-related social theory in general than in global issues specifically, then W&M’s program might fit you better than UVA’s.

Now that I’m going down this rabbit hole, I’m curious to compare VT’s public health program with the other two! It doesn’t look as if the undergrad coursework is that much more extensive than what the W&M and UVA programs cover, but it’s a bit heavier on areas like health communication, health education, and specific health issues like nutrition, drug use, etc. It’s basically a slightly shallower version of an MPH curriculum. Probably good for people who want to go directly into community health/health education roles, but it doesn’t sound as if that is you. For anything more research or policy oriented in the field of public health, you’d want the MPH anyway… and VT does have an MPH program, but with fewer specializations than most schools offer - they only have two tracks, in community health promotion, and infectious disease. That seems consistent with the emphasis of the undergrad program. So… I know you aren’t seriously considering VT anyway, but I would cosign taking VT out of the running unless community health promotion is your desired sphere to work in, which it doesn’t sound like it is.

So, putting aside the issues of the Wise pathway… if you had direct-admit to both UVA and W&M and were just comparing programs, I would say this:

  • If you definitely want an MPH, go to UVA and do the 4+1 pathway
  • If you’re specifically interested in global health, you could go either way: the public health track in the Global Studies major at UVA, or the Global Health track of the Public Health minor at W&M, paired with a relevant major of your choice (Soci, Anthro, Global Studies, or even IR). The breadth and depth of what’s available seems similar. (Also note that W&M is a top producer of Peace Corps volunteers, which is a popular path for students who are focused on global health.)
  • If you’re most interested in the social theory underlying population health and health equity, as a pre-med or pre-law foundation, and don’t want to do an extra MPH year along the way, go to W&M - the soci major + public health minor looks excellent for this purpose, and doesn’t in any way compare unfavorably with what UVA offers to undergrads.

If this analysis points to W&M for you, then I’d skip the whole transfer path, go for the great four-year experience at W&M, and not look back. If it points to UVA, then I’d consider how strong that preference is and whether the transfer path is worth it.

Of course, there’s the additional question of how much you prefer UVA for other reasons, other than academic offerings in your major. Both schools can cover the necessary bases academically, so it depends how strong that preference is. But academically, don’t be swayed by how majors and minors are labeled; W&M’s program looks really promising, and it’s a great place for pre-law and pre-med; I wouldn’t hesitate to choose it.

Good luck with the decision!

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Why not consider starting at W&M and transfering to UVA if you want to change? I realize its not a guarantee, but you might find W&M works out.

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