Witnessing child abuse

Parent Cafe
61

@roycroftmom I definitely don’t understand your post to me. If you’re saying taking a video that gets presented to child protective services is somehow being a vigilante and endangering others, I firmly disagree.

If, for some reason or another, it meant I managed to get myself shot (or punched or whatever), then at least that could also help the child involved - esp in a public place with cameras, so it’d be worth it.

To me, kids are worth a lot and I tend to be the type who can think quickly enough on my feet to get that video - hence - why a certain news station had video of a recent house fire in my mom’s neighborhood. Lots of people watching, no one else videoing. (Video taken AFTER it was determined that everyone from the house was safe, of course. There are priorities.)

Since nothing else could safely be done in this situation, a video could have been worth quite a bit for authorities.

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We all think kids are worth a lot, @creekland. You don’t have the monopoly on that. Your last sentence, regarding privately pursuing the matter if the authorities did not act to your satisfaction, is vigilantism.

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Point taken that it’s not too late for the OP to report this to police.

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@eyemamom --First, Good letter and I applaud you for following up.

"This is what I wrote:

My husband and I ate breakfast in the atrium this past Saturday at approximately 9 am. As we were sitting there a group of people with adults and children were walking towards the restaurant. I don’t know if the child was whining or having a fit, but suddenly a huge, muscular man starts beating this child within an inch of her life. One woman took a swing at the man and another woman held her back. I don’t know what the other adults in the group were doing but the sounds were sickening. Everyone in the restaurant stopped and obviously didn’t know what to do. It wasn’t safe to intervene. The manager finally slowly walked over to the phone to call security. Several minutes went by and the man stopped. They all just went back up the escalator. The security officers finally showed up and just wandered around and did nothing.
I hope the hotel has cameras and tries to ID this family and get help for those children. I’m still sick about it.
Given how lackadaisical the security ended up being I should have videotaped the event and called 911.
The staff at the restaurant all witnessed this as well in case management decides to follow up."

Here’s what I would add to make it more of a “witness statement”

I’d describe the “muscular man” in more detail (tall, short, big body builder or slender athlete? How big is huge?)

Did you hear the child say anything? (Just describe the child’s actions–was she upset?)

“Beating within an inch of her life”. What does that mean? Spanking, hitting her all over? Did she faint? Did he hit her continuously? Once, twice–more than you can count? You don’t really know but saw the kid afterward?

“Sounds were sickening”–what does that mean? Screams? Broken bones? Thuds?

“It wasn’t safe to intervene”–Totally get that (stay safe) but was it the guy was just totally out of control, his size? Yelled for people to stand back?

“The manager finally slowly walked over to a phone to call security”-- Any idea how long it actually took before you think someone responded? You don’t know if he called security unless you heard the phone call–he could have called someone else who finally called security.

“Several minutes went by”–any idea?

“They all just went back up the escalator”–anything said that you heard? Did the guy usher them onto the elevator or command them? Who went up? Him, both women and the kid? Or just one woman? Any guess at ages? Did you see?

“The security officers finally showed up and just wandered around and did nothing.”–Do you know that? Were they asking anybody what had gone on? Did you try to volunteer information or even have a chance? Had most people just scattered by that time?
Did the security officers just come down and leave without trying to find anything out?

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Not really. This is taking things higher up when one isn’t satisfied with a lower response. One often has to do this when lower levels of Powers That Be don’t take things seriously (stores, schools, gov’t, companies, whatever).

Vigilantism would be me taking on the folks myself. I’d have no intention of doing that and certainly don’t recommend it.

If no one ever questioned whether Powers That Be are correct in their (lack of) actions or not there’d be greater problems. Quite a bit has been able to be “fixed” lately with video evidence. Before that few would believe word of mouth.

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On the advice here I also tweeted the hotel as well. I won’t take on the personal attacks for my reaction and actions. I care very deeply about the safety and health of children. I would hope anyone who “knows” me here knows I’m not unkind or uncaring. I do know given the situation and people involved my intervention would not have gone well.

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Eyemamom I completely understand your actions at the time of your witnessing the crime. Please if you could explain your reluctance to contact the police and serve as a witness?

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I’m not reluctant, I just read it here for the first time and hadn’t considered it. I’ve been out and about all day and haven’t had a private moment. I didn’t know this many days after the fact if I could with such little information. Where would my reluctance come from? I couldn’t identify the man in a lineup. I also wonder if it wasn’t recorded if there was any kind of real information to go on. However, I have nothing against calling, I just don’t want to call 911.

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Eyemamom- if you are willing to share, was wondering if you had contacted the police? Spoke to friend in law enforcement last evening and he was highly confident based on the public nature and seriousness of the crime you had described, that almost any and all jurisdictions would investigate.

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Nocreativity1, sorry but you’re wrong. Photography is legal in public spaces. Filming, which includes if it includes audio is not, even in public spaces where privacy is not expected. Even in a one-party state, if you are not one of the parties to the conversation, just a witness, it would be iffy. This is considered eavesdropping, and most states have laws stating it is not legal to record conversations. Presumably any video from such a situation would include audio, and thus would most likely be illegal. There may be situations where it is worth doing anyway, as Creekland suggests. Personally, I wouldn’t do so, at least not in the situation as described

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Actually you are wrong, I never suggested including audio. You can video at will.

I was very careful with my words as most lawyers are when discussing a nuanced subject. If you are video tapping at a distance and capture people shouting, those people no longer have a presumption of privacy.

You are not responsible for instance if you are video taping a family dinner at a resteraunt and someone across the room spontaneously utters in a raised tone a confession to murder. Totally admissible and within your rights to tape in a public space. Not allowed to covertly capture a conversation on tape.

Law is pretty clear and happy to provide specific state case law via PM and anxious to see anything that suggests otherwise that is authoritative.

Lastly prosecutors have discretion so even under an ambiguous scenario they will tend to defer to your attempt to serve the public good.