But definitively doing nothing will result in nothing.
Now we all know to call 911.
I personally feel one can belittle or one can help a person see how best to handle this. Maybe an exploration of the latter helps us all.
We all like to think we’d be heroes, but most of us have never faced this sort of situation (or others like it) before.
There are enough good samaritans that have paid for their best intentions with their lives that no one has any right to pass judgement on the OP.
I am saying call the police now. Not retrospective at the time it occurred. I am not speculating on what I would do, I know I would call the police (we can debate when). I am not judging or belittling, I am imploring the OP to call the police now. She is safe the child is not.
Child abuse doesn’t have a one week statute of limitations.
@TomSrOfBoston , the idea that people ignored Kitty’s screams has been proven to be bogus. You can thank Abe Rosenthal for that.
See the excellent documentary film “The Witness” by James Solomon featuring her brother Bill, who investigated the matter. She died in the arms of one of the neighbors who responded.
My family knew her family well when I was a kid.
@eyemamom - I think you posted that you had said something about this on Trip Advisor? Please post your story on Twitter too, and link it to the hotel’s account (or all hotel accounts if they have a few). They will likely take it more seriously if there is public scrutiny.
I think Shaun King did a lot to ID the people who beat up innocent bystanders in Charlottesville than any police department could hope to. He had a small army of people helping.
ETA - don’t feel bad for freezing in the moment. I remember witnessing a violent act and while my eyes saw it clearly, my brain was saying, “this can’t be happening, this can’t be happening”.
I’m a bit confused as to what the police are supposed to do so long after the fact. Without names of the parties involved? Or witness statements at the time? This isn’t a murder investigation, wherein they might search for video surveillance. In fact, the police probably are too busy asking for video on any of the dozens of murders occurring in US cities this weekend to spend any time on this.
@roycroftmom, it is quite possible that there is video of the event from the hotel’s security cameras. I’m sure we have all seen video posted online asking for those with information to contact the police.
@Nocreativity1 at no time has the OP abdicated her responsibility, stop claiming she has. Go back and read the tone of your own posts.
This is a learning opportunity for everyone here - to think about what we might do in such a situation, to formulate a plan. My daughter studies Karate, and a good part of their instruction is teaching them about the concept of muscle memory. They don’t think about what they would do, they train their bodies and minds to react in the moment. Most people would not only not actively do anything, but also wouldn’t think twice about their own inaction. Would you respond any differently if the OP had called hotel security immediately, and let them take over from there?
It is quite possible hotel security returned to their office and reviewed security footage, to see if they could identify the guests. If they could, they may have visited their room and spoken to them. If they did, due to privacy concerns the OP is not going to be told the outcome.
No consolation, I have never seen that in anything other than a murder or ongoing kidnapping investigation. Even thrn, very rare, maybe one per year?
This would be considered across most police jurisdictions a violent crime with a minor in danger. Given there is video, witnesses and likely a document trail given these were likely hotel guests it would be both documented and investigated.
What is required is for the witness to the events to tell the police. “Beaten within an inch of her life”, but people are arguing that it’s ok not to call the police so they can follow up. Ctsscoutmom please be aware my tone is intended to coerce the correct action which produces the greatest likelihood of protecting the child. Jotting a strongly worded note to a hotel chain is not the right thing.
In response to your question I would not be able to sleep until I personally told the police what I witnessed. I couldn’t live with the possibility that the child was being hit and I hadn’t done everything possible.
We are not arguing that it’s ok not to call the police. But nor are we loading on this OP, who was and is distressed and did not know what to do.
It might be more effective to simply explain along the lines of: “You can still call the police to bring this to their attention and offer details of what you witnessed.”
None of us know what happened after the party moved on. As said, security may have investigated and may have pursued this even further.
But this discussion can also include a “WWYD?” What would you do? These chats are often organic, in the sense that they range past one solution and aren’t just a directive.
It is now OP’s decision how she proceeds.
Adding. None of us are treating this abuse as acceptable.
There is speculation as to what is material here. We have no idea if there were additional events or if this was in isolation.
To me, it’s the police who should determine what is material or important.
I hope if I’m the victim of a crime. Witnesses will come forward even if it’s after the fact and there is uncertainty if the information is useful.
OP, I appreciate your post very much.
We all know who we want to be but when we evaluate a situation we do need to take into account
the fact that escalating the situation could make the situation worse.
H and I have agreed to discuss this more. He tends to be a bystander and I am likely to step in but without others support that actually might not be best.
Calling the police now and asking to speak with a detective might not be futile. At least it would be looked into. I would also call children’s services ( as many of us have a mandate to do this because of our profession licenses) and report. Depending on the strength of your services they may very well still get involved. One county here would while the county over might not. Call the children’s services of the county that the hotel’s is in.
And you can definitely do this anonymously.
I am expected to do this by my state license so the decision is easier for me–that and having called
many times over the years. And yes, the really do have to investigate just on your statement.
OP, even at this later time I would be calling my state’s child protective services and asking them if anything can be done. Like others I suspect the hotel will have security cameras.
They may or may not be able to do anything, but if so, it will have been worth it for them to check into it. They could also get any info from the hotel if they decide to act. They may tell you they can’t do anything, but you’ll never know if you don’t try.
I think it was a great idea to post on Trip Advisor!
I definitely don’t blame you for your reaction at the time. In hindsight, getting your own video would be the “go to” for any other time it were to happen (which I hope it doesn’t). In this day and age, videos are worth far more than eye witnesses. They can be shared with authorities or posted (if needed) and produce real results.
Video evidence is better than “eyewitness” statements, because eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable. That said, it is not always the best idea to record, even in public. While it is legal to take pictures, in many places it is NOT in fact legal to record someone else, even in public, without their consent. In one of those places, you film an incident like this, it might result in the police contacting the perpetrator, but it can definitely get YOU in legal trouble. If you feel it is worth legal trouble on the chance it will help the child, go ahead and record. But be aware of the possible consequences. While I agree we all should do what we can to stop any abuse, we must balance with protecting ourselves. Perhaps these privacy rights stand in the way, but they are ingrained in our culture, and as with many other laws, there are there to protect us too.
But this was a public place and many state laws allow for this. In a ‘two party consent’ state, no.
To me, it’s worth it for the safety of a child I legitimately feel is in danger. I honestly don’t care about dumb laws one iota. Never have, never will.
That said, the first folks to see the video would be child protective services - then they could advise for the next step because the goal is not shaming or similar, it’s getting the situation fixed if at all possible. Only if nothing were going to be done with it would I post it publicly and perhaps with blurring faces.
You are allowed to film someone in any public space as long as their is no “reasonable” presumption of privacy. Examples of prohibited “public” areas are fitting rooms, bathrooms, etc… Other limitations on public filming include stalking laws, and deliberate and prolonged harassment.
Documentation of a crime in a public space is entirely legal. While no law exists against it the filmer would would be further insulated under a “reasonable man” theory and lastly any claimant of being wrongfully filmed in public would have to show a monetary and intent to win civil damages.
Film away perfectly legal.
As an aside the taping of two party conversations is unique State by state. Some states such as Ny require only one party to be aware of the taping while others require both to be in agreement.
@creekland, that’s not concern, that being a vigilante. Not a good idea to take matters into your own hands for many reasons, including further endangering others. Notify authorities and your job is done.