DD is a freshman at a “lower Ivy” and she has no clue what she wants to do in the future. She’s mostly undecided on her major and has taken a bunch of random classes this past year with a not-so-great GPA. I told her that she needs to find a major and a career path by the end of sophomore year. I feel like that’s a pretty generous offer; after all, most kids at state schools or more pre-professional schools have to choose their major by the time they’re applying as a senior in high school.
Anyways, DD told me she’s considering going into consulting after graduation because it’s a very common option for kids at her school with little direction in life. I asked her what she plans on doing with a career in management consulting, and she told me that she “doesn’t really know… and I only plan on staying at the firm for two years and leaving after that because that’s what everyone does.” When I asked her what she plans on doing after her two-year stint, she mumbled off and shrugged with an “I don’t know” expression.
We’re really concerned at DD’s lack of direction at her school. We know she’s not going to major in anything quantitative or STEM related because she hates math and science (I did make her take the intro to computer science and Econ 101 classes at her school and they went BADLY). This is especially troublesome for us because we have absolutely zero connections to help her out when it comes to searching for internships for consulting or non-quantitative fields; we’re Korean immigrants. DH works in engineering, and I’ve never held a full-time job in the states. We have absolutely no connections to help her secure an internship in a non-engineering field for DD. Deciding not to be aggressively pre-professional for DD will be incredibly costly for her because of this.
In my opinion, the students from lower Ivies who get fancy jobs despite majoring in random fields like art history do so because their parents are able to set up internships for them in the earlier years of college to prepare them for on-campus recruiting. That’s obviously not an option for us. Additionally, the only internships in our area are engineering or health-related. We no longer live in MoCo and moved to a relatively isolated place in the Midwest. The only major employers in the area are the engineering firm DH works at and a network of healthcare facilities. All the good jobs are in STEM. In fact, DD’s high school guidance counselor told her that she was the first person from her 2500 person high school to be accepted to a prestigious school as a non-STEM major. This makes sense, as every single high-achieving student in the area is a STEM major (the school releases a list of the graduation seniors, their colleges, and their majors every year).
Does anyone have any advice here? Especially with regards to internships? Thanks! We are just two confused, unconnected immigrants.
Not sure how qualified I am to answer this, but I am a student who will be attending a “lower” Ivy in the fall. My suggestion is for your DD to consult with her academic advisor and the career services at her school. They should be able to help her find internships. Perhaps have your DD shadowing professionals for a day in different fields. Connections is not necessarily what is needed to get internships. I’ve had success finding very good internships by simply emailing potential organizations/businesses and asking if they are willing to take me on even if they don’t have publicly listed opportunities. Often the initiative and passion you show convinces them to make a brand new position.
I agree that encouraging your D to talk to her school’s career center would be a good starting point.
It’s not unusual for students to not declare a major until sophomore year. I went to Cornell and we didn’t declare until second semester sophomore year. It gives students a chance to explore and find their strengths. Many many students change majors so declaring later can be a benefit.
There are plenty of good careers out there for non STEM majors and most students find their internships without parental help.
I think you need to step back and support your D in finding her own path.
Your daughter is a freshman in college and just had her school year upended. I think her answers sound like a lot of students her age and like the other comments - she has valuable resources at her school and should be using them. I am guessing her school has some mandatory steps that freshman should be taking with career services and those were most likely upended due to the abrupt end of the on campus living. I bet she is thinking about what next and it is hard and a lot of pressure even if she doesn’t want to talk about it with you - she is thinking.
Many companies will come to campus to recruit and she can also take advantage of the list of speakers that come to school to start getting an idea of what sounds of interest. Going into consulting for a few years is very common - at least that is what I did and pretty much 100% of my incoming class with the firm - We all consulted for a few years and worked non-stop - then found a business sector that was of interest for our next position and moved out of consulting. Approx 50+% of my consulting class ending up getting MBAs after consulting or after a year in their first position outside of the firm.
I will disagree with you that you need to be providing her connections. It will be her job to utilize what is available at her school (and it will be a lot) If you are anxious about her timeline, you can set goals (ie by Christmas have x # of meetings with career center/advisor, complete 1st draft resume etc.) - but personally I would let it go for now and let her figure it out. She obviously worked hard in HS to get accepted into an ivy league school and she can do this. Her school wants her to succeed and she has been successful in the past.
PS: I don’t think there is a “lower Ivy” - acceptance rate is beyond competitive for all of them and is only up a bit at a few mainly due to being a larger size school.
I agree that she is more than capable of figuring out internships and such on her own. Have you been open with her when your financial support for her will end?
In the US, it is quite common for students to not select their major until the end of their sophomore year, especially if they are studying at the kind of place where your daughter is. The first two years are for taking lots of different classes so that they can decide what to focus the last two years of their programs on. Some of them change their majors again in the third year but still manage to graduate on time. So don’t worry about the major yet.
One of the reasons that many schools have some kind of distribution requirement is to encourage kids to explore. I hope that econ and computer science allow her to check some of those boxes since it doesn’t sound like anything she wanted. If you want her to find a path, stop dragging her back to the one she doesn’t want.
I would continue to encourage wide exploration coupled with conversations with career counseling and her advisor. Rather than telling her to find a focus, I would suggest she spend one more year “all over the place” exploring things that interest her and taking advantage of events at the career center. My son’s school offered programs focused on specific industries for freshmen and sophomores, and these are just as helpful in deciding what you like as what you don’t. I don’t think management consulting sounds like her path, BTW. Too quantitative.
She should also check out volunteer opportunities as well as internships. I know so many kids whose futures slowly came into focus as a result of experience (including research for papers.) And yes, those opportunities and the network she creates through them and her school’s alumni network will be more than enough to make up for your lack of connections.
I know you are scared for her future and want the best for her, but right now, the approach you are taking isn’t helping her and may be adding your worries to her own concerns (which I suspect she has.)
Take a really deep breath and back up. So far your efforts to force your daughter to do what you want are backfiring (her not-so-great GPA seems to be at least partly linked to the classes you ‘made’ her take, right?).
Next, stop saying “lower Ivies”. Even from here I can hear the disappointment that your child failed to get into what you see as the “higher” or “better” Ivies- I can only imagine how loud your disappointment is to your daughter. I get being disappointed in your children - every honest parent will admit some disappointment or other along the way!- but 1) being so dismissive of her achievement in getting into a top university doesn’t help, and (at least as importantly) 2) it implies a degree of difference that just doesn’t exist in reality.
Then, get some facts:
Internships in college can be anywhere, not just where mom & dad live: our collegekids have done internships all over the US, and in two cases internationally. Your opinion about how internships work in college is more wrong than right: yes, some students get them through their family connections. But most of them get them on their own- with help from professors, careers office / other college information sharing platforms (including recruiting fairs), other students and their own job searches. In fact, that is one of the selling points of “Ivy” type schools is the wealth of contacts and information sources.
It is simply not true that “all” the good jobs are in STEM, and your dismissal of every other field as having any value - at all!- is not helpful for your clearly non-STEM daughter. Helping her through this last piece of growing into adulthood will be a happier and more productive experience for all of you if you start with who she is, not who you think she should be.
agree entirely with @coffeeat3 that MC is a typical, perfectly legitimate, path for graduates of selective schools. The majority do stay a couple years and get hired away or sort out what their next step is. Some go away, get industry experience, and come back. The ones it really suits become partners. Here is an example from our family:
Collegekid 1 was a History & Politics major. She, along with pals who majored in Geology, Italian, Theology, Classics, History, English and Biochemistry (amongst others- these are the ones whose stories I know) all went to top tier MC firms. Three years later she is about to start a MPP at a tippy-top university. Geology was hired away from the MC firm by a client, Italian is in Law School, Theology is at an Investment Bank, Classics is working for the Financial Times, History is a manager (and fast tracked for Director) at the MC firm, English is a curator at a museum in London, and the Biochem is an aide to a major national politician.
The main thing is: your chick is preparing to launch. Launching is hard, and even harder in a world where there are no clear, always true, answers right? Look at the world she has come up in- financial crises, school shootings, pandemics. Like you, our family deeply believes that education is the one thing that you can give your child that nobody and nothing can take away. Right now, a STEM degree looks like the most employable- but even they are not uniform (ask all the students with undergrad biology degrees struggling to find jobs).
But the reason those MC firms hire students from top-tier universities with random degrees is that what they know that the students who get into and succeed at those universities are smart enough to pick up the specifics of different industries pretty fast, and that the thinking / writing / analyzing / producing good work to a hard deadline (papers and finals!) / researching & where/how to find information / teamwork / project management skills that they developed in college are useful. That is the real core of a liberal arts education - the one your daughter is getting. At some point, whether you trust her or not she will have to use her own wings. College is a great place to start building their strength. Trust her.
You might not want to hear this, but she will figure it out. Your behavior, which comes from a good place, is not helping. She should navigate this on her own, with help from career services …and your support from a distance (no need to have connections). I would not worry about her major right now. Kids change their major all the time…at lots of schools.
Your D will find internships and volunteering experiences once things open up again. It has to come from her…not you. She may love these experiences and find her niche, or she may decide to try something else.
She may take a gap year or two (think Peace Corp, Americorp etc) and then apply to grad school or work in a field that she likes…or…she may not.
She may work for a few years following graduation …and then have that light bulb moment when she realizes what she wants to do. And that might change 5 years later. I know grads from top 20 schools who worked in Starbucks for a year before figuring it out. And they eventually did…
I understand where you are coming from, but the path to success is not always a straight arrow. There are often many twists and turns along the way…regardless of school.
Your D is a freshman, and while I recognize that some students seem to know that they wanted to be a doctor, nurse, engineer, etc since their junior year of HS…many others do not fit neatly into that category…and it’s ok. Your D just got uprooted from her first year of college…she will figure it out with time.
Telling her that she has to find a career path by the end of sophomore year is not a good idea. What is a good idea? Letting her know what your expectations are following graduation: she has to go to grad school or find a way to pay her own bills.
One more thing…students who major in philosophy or anthropology, art history etc at “lower ivies” (whatever that means) and similar schools (many schools) do obtain internships on their own, without parental involvement. Happens all the time.
Judging from this and your other thread, your child is clearly unhappy. I would start there and start LISTENING to her about how she feels and what she needs right now. Trying to predict her career several years out helps no-one.
Lower Ivy is just ridiculous and I really wish people wouldn’t say that. It’s so condescending and belittling. It’s like saying lower top 1%.
Imo, you are being totally unreasonable. She’s 19. She doesn’t have to have it all figured out right now. Give her a chance. Frankly, it sounds like yiu are not helping the “problem” one bit. Be concerned in five years if she’s got no job and no ambition, assuming there are jobs in five years. How many of us knew our life plan at age 19? Not many, I think.
P.s. Didn’t you let her go to college so she could figure out what she wants to do? Let her figure it out.
I also reacted to the “lower Ivy.” This may be a cultural difference. Many of us don’t see colleges in terms of a hierarchy, but in terms of fit.
Elite and actually most schools like students to explore for their first two years. It’s fine to be undecided.
One of mine went to what you would call a “higher Ivy” and most of her friends didn’t know what they wanted to do, even after graduating. Wandering can be healthy. They all have found their niches. And yes one of them did consulting after graduating!
Really good summer internships often happen after sophomore year, because companies use them for hiring choices. Sometimes before. Volunteering and local internships during schools can help clarify direction, as can other extracurriculars.
I am not aware of many kids using family connections for internships or jobs. Those days are passing. The College offices for these things are the best resource, as are on-campus interviews.
I haven’t read the other thread but if a young person is unhappy, they are not able to get clarity on much other than getting through a day. Counseling and sometimes medication can help.
The US is a bit more relaxed on expectations of direction though in recent years, with high tuitions and loans, I think a lot of parents share your concerns. However, the sad thing is that by trying to plan prematurely, I think there is danger of getting locked in too early and missing out on a lot of opportunities that are a better match for the future.
Agree that the idea of a “lower Ivy” is ridiculous in today’s environment. You should be incredibly proud that your D got into a hyper-competitive college – instead you appear to be demeaning her college as a “lower Ivy.”
And yes, many 19 year olds don’t have life figured out. Every kid is different and different kids take different paths. My S went into college with a major, stuck with it, and is working in that profession now. In contrast my D took a windier road – she declared a major late sophomore year, added a minor junior year and didn’t settle on a career path until she shadowed a group of professionals during her junior year (she found the shadowing opportunities on her own – we have no contacts in the areas she was interested in). Today both kids are equally successful in their careers. I suggest you have patience with your D. It is fine to encourage your D to go to the career center but give her the time and space to figure things out.
Reading this and your other post I do think family therapy would be helpful. There is an obvious disconnect between you and your D. It would be nice to work to bridge that gap so you can try to have a healthier, more connected long term relationship.
Do many “top” students in high school major in STEM fields as freshman? Yes! Do many of them change their majors freshman or sophomore year? Another YES! My D is a freshman at a T20 school. The majority of her friends are still trying to figure out their majors and many have changed a few times.
It seems pretty clear from your post that you feel there are “better” schools and “better” majors and I suspect you let your feeling known to your daughter. She’ll figure it out but she won’t come to you for support if you aren’t supportive of her choices.
I wasn’t able to respond earlier because I went to sleep and was very busy. Mentioning examples of Ivy grads who worked at Starbucks isn’t comforting to me at all.
If DD does get an internship in another area (which she has to because of our geographic isolation), the internship must be high paying enough to support her rent. We can’t afford to pay her rent in another city.
Management consulting interviews are hard and it’s possible she’ll be rejected everywhere. In that case, she needs a back up plan and she currently has.... none. And no, she can’t afford to work in an art museum or something after graduation because we can’t afford to support her after graduation. There’s a reason why household income and difficult majors have a negative correlation.
Most kids her age are NOT undecided. At the VAST majority of schools in the US like state schools, you need to declare your major early on due to quotas for classes. Majors like engineering, nursing, communications, business, etc. all need to be declared in high school. I feel like this sort of system would be better for DD because then it would force her out of her indecisiveness.
OP: This post and your other post are both very concerning. Typically, I try to be self-reflective—When literally nobody agrees me about something, it’s a time where I tell myself that I should probably listen. I hope you will take the advice to seek some therapy to heal your family, and to allow your daughter to find her own path.