My child tells me that at a party last night her friend got terribly drunk and had sex with a boy she had only just met and who was completely sober - boy tried a second time with same girl but was warned off by others at party (“that’s assault!”) - I don’t know parents of girl - have heard stories about her drinking and feel really concerned - should I alert parents?
Absolutely not, assuming you are talking college-aged. You should talk to your D about the situation including the definition of “assault” so she can pass the information forward. Her friend can then make her own decisions on how to proceed. Drunk people do stupid things all the time, especially college-aged ones, and if this isn’t the first story you are hearing about this girl, maybe she needs to be counseled on her drinking habits.
Unless you know the parents really well I would not tell them their D drinks too much and is sexually active. They may already know or they may not but it would come best only from a very close family member. Your D may be better able to address the drinking directly with the friend if they are close.
There needs to be consent when it comes to sexual acts, and whether someone is intoxicated or not determines someone’s capacity to give consent. It varies by states, but there is a general theme.
https://www.rainn.org/articles/legal-role-consent
I also think OP is posting about someone who is in high school.
Drunk people do stupid things, but it doesn’t mean someone should take advantage of them.
OP - it is a tough call on whether to tell the parents or not. It would definitely put your kid in an awkward position. At the same time, what is more important. I haven’t had to deal with it. Would like to hear from others who had to face a similar situation.
The only two things that are factual are that the girl drinks and the girl is sexually active. It would be highly inappropriate for the OP to presume anything else. The OP can certainly talk to her D about what constitutes a healthy sexual relationship. It is heartening to hear that the guy’s friends warned him off as it is dangerous territory these days for guys and clearly the message is getting through. Hopefully her friends will watch out for her if she drinks and hooks up routinely.
It depends on the age of girl and if she was able to give consent in her drunken state.
Be glad your daughter feels comfortable sharing with you. Did she seem like she wanted you to say something to the other gitl’s parents? I am guessing you saying something to them could end up awkward for your daughter and her relationship with this girl. I had a, let’s say, more adventuresome friend in high school and while I never discussed her activities with my parents, I would have never betrayed her. There was another incident with a different friend who got heavily into drugs. It was really bad. She came to school high on some very powerful stuff. I together with several friends did tell her dad, who worked at our school. It was a complicated situation. I was never very close to that friend afterwards, I think in part because she felt betrayed. But this was a life and death sort of situation, which is why we spoke up.
Oldfort it is still presumptuous for a third party to presume the girl was mentally incapacitated for that particular state definition of mentally incapacitated. Depending on the state that can be a high bar. Probably best to address the underage drinking and make sure she doesn’t end up with an STD or an unplanned pregnancy.
momofthreeboys is presumptuous for a third party to presume the boy didn’t know the girl was incapacitated to give consent.
Some people on this forum don’t believe that sexual assault exists.
Girl in question is 17 - don’t know about age of boy
http://itsonus.org/#landing
If your D thinks this was sexual assault and not consensual, then absolutely someone must do/say something.
Thanks - found this most helpful:
http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/05/alcohol-and-consent-questions/
I agree that question of consent is difficult for a third party to answer, but I do know that if this were my daughter I would be very, very concerned about the potential for something bad happening in the future - even if her parents know about drinking and sexual activity it feels bad to hear about a lovely kid making bad choices
I think we all agree that sexual assault is a serious issue, but we’re getting to the point in society where guys will need to start carrying around legal documents for girls to sign before doing anything!
Personally, I think attending a party where heavy drinking is involved, combined with a bunch of horny guys and girls, is a recipe for trouble.
A la #12, I think we need to stop being bystanders and stand up for women’s rights, and say no to bad behaviors. My college aged daughter saw a drunk “sister” at her sorority, passed out being carried off by a man she had just met and was told to mind her business by other sisters when she horrified, tried to stop him. She quit the sorority. By all means, say something to that girls’ parents about her drinking and putting herself in risky situations. We all need to quit being bystanders if we’re going to change the culture on college campuses. It’s uncomfortable but may be life saving.
First let’s remember this isn’t the Op telling what she saw. It is re-telling us, what her child said that she saw.
Since the wording in the Op is “got terribly drunk and had sex” I would not add my own biases into this particular statement and assume anything other than consensual in this case. Had the Op written drunk and “passed out”, “raped” or “sexually assaulted” then I would take a whole different meaning. For example, if a female is passed out, and a guy rapes that female, we don’t use the phrase that “she had sex”.
Generally speaking, some believe no means no, and yes means yes. Others believe no means no, but yes can mean yes or no depending on how the female feels the next day. To many, women’s rights mean that women can choose for them selves and they bear the responsibility for making good or bad choices. Some disagree, believing that if he is sober and she is drunk, that even if she says yes, he is supposed to know the inner workings of her mind, know to what level she is intoxicated, and then the responsibility falls on him to decide for her that her “yes” doesn’t count and it is up to him to say No for the both of them.
I, too, agree that the way the OP phrased it implies that the girl consented, even though it may have been an exercise in very poor judgment. If that’s not the way it happened and the girl was passed out or too intoxicated to give consent, then the issue is very different because a crime may have been committed. It isn’t a crime to make stupid choices, even when drunk, as long as that choice is validly made by the person involved.
This reminds me of an incident that occurred when my D was in HS. She was at a party and one of her friends got very drunk and starting going into a bedroom with a boy was a senior. The girls were freshmen. My D yelled at the boy and refused to allow her friend to go. She called me and I picked the two girls up and took them to the diner to sober her friend up. I didn’t know the parents and never told them. Shortly thereafter, the girl began dating the senior and would sneak out of school during the day to have sex with him. I met the parents at a party a few months later and the first topic of conversation the mother brought up was birth control. She said that she knew her D was active and put her on it and the rest of us mothers would be wise to do the same. Before I could even get my jaw off the floor, another mom said: " Shouldn’t you just have the boy arrested for statutory rape and talk to your daughter about respecting herself as a woman?" YAY for her!
My D tried so hard to help this girl but eventually she just ended the friendship, to the point of refusing to attend the same college. I just hope that the girl in this story gets some counseling to put things into perspective. I am not the morality police and 17 year olds have sex, I just hope that they make wise choices.
“It’s uncomfortable but may be life saving.” - Yes…
We (collective) must stand up for those who are unable to do so for themselves. Young children, the elderly, drunk/high teens, coworkers being mistreated…the list goes on.
The important thing is to state the facts as seen without the emotions (drama) felt at the time. Which probably means the OPs D (with her parent there) must step up to the plate, and speak with the other girls parent(s). She (the D) was there. She knows what she saw. She knows she heard the boys friends warn him off. She, and she alone (with support) must speak out. Now. Not next week, not next year. Right now.
And I’ll snag another quote “we need to stop being bystanders and stand up…”
Did the boy’s friends warn him off because she was too drunk to consent or because they’re aware that all the girl has to do is regret consensual sex in the morning and his life is over? I know some women are raped after getting drunk, but not every girl who has sex after she’s been drinking is the victim of a sexual assault. If this young women doesn’t feel like she was assaulted, it’s not fair to the boy to try to convince her that she was.
If we’re to the point that young women’s judgment can’t be trusted if they’ve been drinking, perhaps we should make it illegal for them to drink. Better yet, permit them to drink but make them accountable for their actions. We really don’t need to go back to a time when others decided for a women what she meant. And they shouldn’t be allowed to use drinking as an excuse to erase a casual hookup either, yet I believe that too often that’s what’s happening. Too many innocent boys are having their lives ruined because college tribunals have a vested interest in finding against them. We haven’t even discussed girls who are using the tribunals to retaliate against boys and that happens too. It’s discouraging that so many here have the boy convicted in absentia, and the young women hasn’t even accused him of a crime.