<p>Dig deep enough and every BS has had a “scandal”. Teenagers do stupid things. The issue is how did the school deal with it. Are there clearly communicated expectations of behavior? Are there clearly communicated and consistently applied consequences for breaking the rules? The issue with the kids talking about drinking on campus and in front of adults indicates a lack of fear of consequences that is concerning. Groton and Choate having to deal with misbehavior is not a fault of the school, unless you feel they mishandled their reaction.</p>
<p>Very bright teenagers can do vicious things. They can make terrible mistakes. The Pew Research Center Survey on teenagers and technology show how quickly and widely technology has spread in this country–and how much time teens devote to the use of technology. The older generations are trying to catch up with the teenagers.</p>
<p>Making a post on Facebook isn’t illegal. Underage drinking is. On the Teens & Drinking thread, if I were waiting in a lobby, and a group of girls were talking, loudly, of the mean comments they had made on Facebook, then yes, I would hold it against the school. If they were rude to people waiting in the lobby, then yes, I would wonder about the school’s climate. </p>
<p>Many scandals are more complicated than they appear in the newspapers. I agree with other commenters, it would depend upon the school’s reaction. If the school did not follow its own procedures, I would worry.</p>
<p>I think 1012’s comment that “Groton and Choate having to deal with misbehavior is not a fault of the school, unless you feel they mishandled their reaction” too easily lets the school off the hook. Whether we like it or not, as parents, we have handed over our kids to a ‘new’ parent. Reminds me of the movie ‘Remember the Titans’, when Denzel W asked the white star defensive player who’s his ‘daddy’, before allowed to board the bus.
The kids and faculty are in VERY close, intimate quarters. The kids don’t do much without someone knowing about it. The dorm parent usually has a complete view of the hall down the entire dorm. At Groton, the freshmen dorms don’t even have full sidewalls; the walls only go up 3/4’s, and kids can stand on their beds and look over the wall.
There is absolutely, positively, some blame on the schools for these incidents. They just didn’t do this in a vacuum.</p>
<p>But back to the OP’s question whether a scandal would be a deal breaker. In my opinion, NO. Parents and prospective students really need to spend MORE time during visits at the school. Walk around the grounds and halls. Talk to the maintenance staff or kitchen staff. See how the students or adults react to you. I am dumbfounded by the number of families whose ONLY visual inspection of the school is the interview and the guided tour. Is that really enough to base a decision where to hand off your child for years? Most people spend more time researching their kitchen appliances.</p>
<p>We spent hours at the school/s before the interview. Then stayed for lunch [if invited], but in any event hung out for the entire afternoon. We roved the grounds and halls, checked out arts classes, watched several athletic teams practice. For each school visit, we were there for most of the day or the entire day. Then we typically had dinner at a joint where someone from the faculty said they like to eat. We did this at the HADES, Groton, and a few more places.</p>
<p>If you can make an informed and comfortable decision and trust your gut feelings, I wouldn’t let a publicized scandal be a dealbreaker.</p>
<p>Thanks again for all the additional POVs.</p>
<p>@Periwinkle: I appreciated you pointing out the distinction between what is illegal vs. legal (albeit mean-spirited, hurtful, and in bad judgement/taste). Interesting that the outcomes of the initial acts (again, as far as we know) were very different — the illegal conduct ends up in rumor and an eroding the day school’s rep via a prospective parent; the legal conduct leads to bad press and in one case, a suicide.</p>
<p>Maybe it’s this thread or maybe it’s this gorgeous Fall day, but I think my stance on either of the “scandal” incidents this Fall might be softening. Second chances, forgiveness, and all that…</p>
<p>@alextwoofour: Agreed on the “spend as many hours on each campus as possible”. I think this was really the impetus for that thread I started a while back about “Why don’t BS allow kid to shadow pre-application?”…in which many parents told me that I was being unrealistic and perhaps a tad selfish, that the time to do full-on visits is the revisits.</p>
<p>I second your advice (especially the eating in the cafeterias part), but know that in many cases, a family is trying to visit two schools a day, perhaps over the course of a few days…so that luxury isn’t always there. Especially when you live 5+ hours away from some schools.</p>
<p>SevenDad, the illegal conduct in the teens & drinking thread happened off campus. I presume no one brought it to the school’s attention. When such conduct comes to schools’ attention, there are consequences. For example, a Concord Academy student held an off-campus party in Andover a few years ago. The students who attended the party did face disciplinary consequences. I could find the letter from the aggrieved mother of the host, but as I remember, the school informed all the seniors’ colleges of the behavior. Most of them lost college acceptances. The host was suspended for a long enough time to effectively end his career at CA. Concord Academy is on our list of schools. </p>
<p>When a “scandal” hits the papers, the papers play up the wealth and influence of the parents. Similar stories happen at public high schools, but those scandals don’t sell newspapers.</p>
<p>SevenDad,
I probably can understand why you had this concern. If incidents were happened again and again and the trust relationship is over between school and family. then it is a dealbreaker no matter bs, ds or ps.
I’d like to share my experiences. The magnet public school in our area is the only school provided advanced and AG program. However, This magnet school student body consist of kids from nieghborhood community and county-wide AG/GT students. The past 2 years, it had more than 5 lockdown situations and bad incidents again and again. the principle and school board knew the fact and try to enforce the rule, discipline but simply can’t find a way to avoid things occurred again. They just can not control student body.
Our area day schools have good academic reputation but also notorious for party, drinking, driving incident. It is not always been reported in media but parents all knew the fact. Day school seldom expel students unless they seriously violate school rules.
Now, back to top BS. I heard incidents occurred every year but I also heard school’s reaction for those incidents. I heard Andover expelled certain students last year due to substance use. Exeter enforced out of town rule for boarders this year that parent has to fax agreement with signature.
I guess if my kid’s bs school won’t handle incidents well (even if my kid is the student caused the incident) and the trust relationship does not exist anymore, I’ll pull back my d, either homeschool her or move somewhere else to find a school I trust.</p>
<p>Back from parents’ weekend at Choate, where of course, the Facebook incident was the topic of a lot of discussion between parents and administrators. One point that was made clear was that this was NOT a case of cyberbullying. The girls who contributed to the thread meant for it to be private. One of their accounts was “hacked” and the contents published. Of course, as the students are being reminded, everything posted on the internet is “public and permanent” and I’m sure that the girls who were expelled or suspended are sorry they ever opened a Facebook account. I would say that all of the questions and comments from the parents were supportive of the school. </p>
<p>I think that as parents looking into boarding school, it is your responsibility to check out the “culture” of a school yourself before you enroll your child. Talk to your friends!</p>
<p>As far as the Groton case goes, how tragic for the family and the school. The school’s hands are tied because they cannot defend themselves in the media. Cyberbullying as it was described has no place in any school setting, let alone a residential one. The school probably did the right thing, but who knows what the true facts of the case are? If you are interested in applying to Groton, go there and ask the questions yourself. Don’t believe everything that you read in the newspapers.</p>
<p>And, as Bluegene and others have said, these kinds of incidents are probably going to happen wherever you have teenagers these days. What matters most, in my opinion, is the school’s response to the incident…</p>
<p>As the person who started that other thread, I do think there are similarities, but the magnitude of the incidents here makes a big difference. I don’t know enough of the details in the two incidents at G and C to say much, but what I do know bothers me enough that I will not allow my child to apply there. Who knows, maybe if I am shopping for another kid in a few years one of these will be at the top of the list, but the culture that allowed these events to happen there is still present today and I don’t want any part of it.</p>
<p>SD, thanks for all the disclaimers. I trust that you understood me correctly. You didn’t have to do that! :)</p>
<p>Frellielou- “the culture,” unfortunately exists at all schools today, including our local semi rural public high school (ever hear of Phoebe Prince?). I believe that a lot of it stems from media today “Gossip Girls”, MTV, reality shows etc. The great thing about private boarding schools is that they can counsel, expel, suspend or otherwise discipline students who break the Code of Conduct (Respect for Other etc)- public schools cannot do this. I would not rule out any private school that previously piqued your interest without going, looking and asking.</p>
<p>Rofl, you have read my mind.</p>
<p>I would try to stay away from a school with a scandal like this recently. To let go a student who’d be so stressed over it that he took his own life for whatever reason raises a red flag to me that there is something wrong with the school system. And I agree with stealth1 in that the school shouldn’t be “off the hook” so easily. Facing such an incident, there is a lot of reflection and soul seating to do, at least.</p>
<p>Pulsar, do you also have such faith in boarding schools that youd send 3 sons there as stealth1 did?</p>
<p>Sorry for the long post…</p>
<p>I tend to agree with RebAngel that a significant percentage of New England boarding schools, including many that I think are wonderful (Groton among them) need to work extra hard at excising powerful “boys will be boys, ‘hazing-heavy’, sarcasm-cloaked-in-wit” kinds of behavior. These are bedrock characteristics of the British school system on which so many storied East Coast boarding schools are modeled. It’s not at all easy to change deeply ingrained tradition. </p>
<p>To scrub away bad behavior first requires that the head, the administration, the faculty and many of the parents discard any belief that a culture of humor at the other guy’s expense, hazing and bullying is actually a beneficial toughening up process in disguise. You’d be surprised at how many successful, hard charging, Type-A parents along the East Coast are of two minds on the matter. On the one hand, there is the shock and dismay given voice at cocktail parties (usually by the Moms) about bullying/pranks etc. But the guys often think to themselves that life is one tough road (and getting tougher all the time) and that a certain amount of rough behavior at boarding school gets the kids ready for sharp elbows and spit in the eye. It’s always the hope of this larger-than-you’d think group that the School allows some of this toughening up to happen “within reason.” </p>
<p>Personally, I believe that this whole area is gray. At what point does normal argument, difference and dislike cross the line into abnormal? It’s my opinion that if a School wants to change its culture there has to be a headmaster and enough faculty willing and able to say that kindness and truth are going to be more important than anyone’s individual right to be at that School (including children of rich, connected parents). But these same leaders also need to be willing to defend, where appropriate, the repentant kid who bullied once or twice and needs to be punished, but not expelled. Always a judgment call.</p>
<p>In my view, when you send a kid away, you have to answer three questions outside of scholarship: </p>
<ol>
<li><p>does the School honestly and actively promote and integrate kindness and truth in everything it does?</p></li>
<li><p>does the Headmaster have rock solid judgment, an internal compass that knows the north and south of the School no matter what the prevailing winds might be? And does he or she have the spine and compassion to stay the right course.</p></li>
<li><p>Will this particular School help me make my child into the best human being possible? This is often the hardest calculation in the face of all the distractions of beautiful facilities, great scholarship, enticing viewbooks, impressive speeches etc. even though it’s the most important calculation you ever make (IMO).</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Very good post Thacher parent. I completely agree with everything you say. Parents need to do their own probing and ask those hard questions of the schools. Don’t believe the glossy brochures, but don’t believe that the newspapers have the full story either. There are lots of other schools (and I’m not going to name them) who have had incidents that they were lucky enough to keep out of the press. My point was that this mean spirited culture of today seems to exist everywhere- and it’s up to us to teach our children better and insist that the schools do too.</p>
<p>An interesting Times Op-Ed on “The Private School Civility Gap”…</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/30/opinion/30blow.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/30/opinion/30blow.html</a></p>
<p>Goodness, that article juxtaposed with [this</a> recent post](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/828253-comparing-isee-scores-ssat-scores-2.html#post1065820616]this”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/828253-comparing-isee-scores-ssat-scores-2.html#post1065820616) was more than a little bit unsettling.</p>
<p>SD - Good article. Thanks!
Dodgersmom - did you mean post #47 on that thread? I saw that comment and found it shocking. It goes back to the question of do these young people really understand the concept of a public forum?</p>
<p>Madaket - </p>
<p>Yes, I meant post 47. But I’m not entirely sure it’s the “young people” we need to be concerned about. Three posts earlier, the same person was claiming to be a parent, not a student.</p>