“I can’t convince her to not look at the budget. She bases everything on what she can afford instead of what’s safe”
@“aunt bea” That’s totally part of the learning experience. I watched my daughter make such decisions, and regret them. A classic was taking a flight that required something like a 16 hour layover in India. DH and I urged her to take a more expensive flight - or pay for a visa so she could leave the airport and stay at a hotel. She did neither, and it made for a nightmarish journey. (But yes, she saved a couple hundred bucks!) Afterwards she said sheepishly “never again.”
But of course, when I was her age I did the same thing. That’s how we all grow.
I know my parents fretted when I was in Europe as a college student and I did end up in a hospital in Rome with kidney stones back when phones were down the hall in the hospital to make them even more stressed out. I would not, however, let one of my young adults travel alone in Europe or Asia or South America or really anywhere. Stuff happened in the seventies and stuff happens now. It is far safer to travel with another person.
Depending on age and relationship, it can be difficult to “allow/forbid” your adult child to do anything. At some point all most of us can do is recommend, suggest, and discourage. Also, is it so hard to find someone to travel with? In addition to being much safer it would likely be a lot more fun to share the experience with someone, also more cost-efficient when you can share many things. This is the argument I used with my son… and it failed! He was determined to bicycle accross this country solo (I know, not Europe, but still a worry for a parent). When he was 19 I was able to talk him out of it, but at age 22 all I could do was offer my support. If I had a daughter I would be even more concerned about traveling solo. Yes, I wear the double standard proudly.
Both of my daughters are experienced travellers. Older d has done some travelling on her own in Europe usually post semester abroad or internship/summer position. I am pretty confident about her abilities and her street smarts. She just went on her first international business trip to a conference in Jerusalem and I could tell she was nervous about all the arrangements. She had been to Israel before on Birthright and we do have family there however I did tell her that my preference was that she travel by taxi with whatever free time she had and we put extra money into her account to do so. I think she was relieved and I did not however want to make her extra nervous. Of course the last night in Tel Aviv she and a group from her conference were at the very cafe where the terrorist shooting took place.
Younger d was in London on a mid-semester class/group trip and called us on New Year’s Morning to tell us that somehow she had lost her credit card. Given that she had only just arrived a few days earlier, we had to have our credit card company overnight a new one to the hotel, but luckily we had sent her with extra cash. Her program included breakfast in the hotel but no other meals so it was a bit uncomfortable until she received the new card because her extra cash had to stretch and she had to borrow from her friends.
Little kiddo is turning 26 this summer. Yikes. She has spent 2 years living and working in a Central Asian country and traveling to the neighboring countries for fun and on business. To say that I was not worried about her would be an understatement. Especially when I read about her encounters with the corrupted cops!!! When she traveled alone through Europe during the summer of her internship in Geneva, it was quite a relief! At least that part of the world has enforceable laws, and her trips were mostly the weekend getaway kind. She now lives in a third foreign country since her graduation from college. Likes it, but can’t wait to get back to the US and settle down.
Long story short, auntbea, your kid will survive! And it might cure the travel bug out of her system… Hugs again.
Update: I just spoke with her.
This time she let the tears flow. She’s miserable when she’s not in class.
She has tried to make friends, to do things with after class, but they “like to get wasted”. Says she smells MJ in the flat that she shares with 7 girls. The “American” flat mates (2) have made it clear that they don’t need a 3rd wheel. The other people seem to be paired up and don’t appear to want to see the museums, events, etc. of Old Madrid.
I tried to comfort her and asked her if she wanted to come home, but she insists on staying.
What to do.
@aunt bea, if it helps, I would feel safer personally and for my kids in living and taking the Metro in Madrid than in many areas of Chicago. One of mine now lives in Asia. I feel that subways and transport there is much safer than when driving Chicago area expressways every day for work.
Madrid’s Metro is known for pick pockets. Tell her to take that aspect of the orientation seriously - but, it doesn’t need to be frightening. I would say the same to anyone in a US subway system. Don’t use cell phone or advertise other valuables like jewelry, purse in front of body (I use a cross-body bag for daily use), extra cash in a couple concealed pockets, know your stops before hand so you aren’t searching, etc. There are information desks and officials around. Taxis are easily available and inexpensive - do encourage that if she’s late. Check for a license with driver name and photo before jumping in. (It was a Chicago cabbie that taught me that when I was a young woman.)
Despite the tragic case in Rome, violent crime is much less common than here in the US.
Question for all: At what age do you think a young adult should not be subject to parent’s “permission” before traveling solo? When they are self-supporting? My answer would be that it depends on the kid!
@aunt bea, I just saw your latest post. This is so hard for a mom to hear! There is so much in Madrid to see - I’m sure she would rather be with friends and it hurts to be left out. Encourage her to see the Prado, Royal Palace, Thyssen-Bornemisza Museum, shop at El Corte Ingles, etc, etc even if alone. All of these are very accessible. It is an easy and safe train ride to Toledo if she has a weekend day free (buy train tickets in advance - they sell out!)
I know she’s there for an internship - but why not become a tourist in her free time. It hurts to be excluded, but if she can find some way to explore her personal interests, even if alone, she may be much happier.
What Pizzagirl said. My kid was in a similar situation several times during her time abroad. She eventually learned to do stuff on her own until someone with similar interests came along.
That may be true NJres regarding the age of majority, but since we’re footing the bill for college I think my kids understand that they aren’t “really” in a position to make cost spending decisions in a vacuum - like taking a jaunt to a foreign country on their own - even if it’s money they earned working summers. I would never think to say “no” to the two of mine that graduated and is on their own financially. I guess the right to say “no” to something that costs money is just one of those invisible leashes that doesn’t get broken until they are truly “independent.”
@rosered55 - last winter my 19 yr old niece wanted to visit a friend who was studying abroad in Italy and after travel alone for 10 day. Her return flight was out of Paris and she didn’t have much of a clue as to where she wanted to go. My niece is very ADD and is known to lose her keys, phone, purse and locks herself out of her apartment on a fairly regular basis. I would not have let her go. My niece also has a way of working her parents to get what she wants. The compromise was she would stay with her friend for a period of time and take a train to Paris. My niece wanted to be flexible so did not want to book lodging ahead of time. My SIL the day she was leaving finally insisted they sit down at the computer and find a hostel in Paris that was agreeable to both my niece and her Mom. My niece ended up really being glad she knew where she was going. She did leave her coat in Italy and lost her phone on the bus to the airport in Paris but otherwise she survived.
My oldest traveled to Buenos Aires alone this year. She is all launched and has lived away from us for 10 yrs but I still worried about her being alone.
@“aunt bea” hugs. I hope you’re D finds her people. Maybe through the program she can find someone else in a similar situation who she can live with. Sometimes jet lag can also make the tears flow more easily.
My relative was fairly unhappy and “iced out” when she studied in China. She was pretty outgoing but treated poorly by the others from the US, so was sad until new kids arrived and she bonded with them.
Long story shortened, she really blossomed from her foreign travel and other experiences and is a very confident, friendly young woman with an amazing boyfriend who is a good match for her.
@auntbea most cities in Europe now have meetup groups with expats. I wonder if she could expand outside of her program. D lived in Europe for a while, and although she had some friends from her job, she also tried to expand her connections by tutoring and attending meetups.
While D was in Europe she did a bunch of travelling, especially since she had a ton of time off. When she had difficulty getting people to commit on travel arrangements she resolved to go on her own. But when she published her itinerary to her friends, it turned out at least one friend decided to join on all of the legs of her trip. I was terrifically relieved, but she was kind of disappointed she didn’t get to do the travelling solo thing. Honestly, since she was pick-pocketed and lost all her bankcards at one point, I think it was a good thing she had someone around.
I’m sorry to take over the thread!!! My apologies.
Update: been contacting family members to see if anyone has contacts in Madrid. It’s been at least a century since we’ve had family in Spain. I’m a native speaker, but “Spain” Spanish is very different and rapid compared to SA Spanish. DD has discovered her Spanish sounds “American” and she feels it.
She also brought the “wrong” clothes (I told her that before she left) and says she “looks” out of place but doesn’t want to spend the money.
I’m looking for flights, I know I should let her work it out, but her pharmacy work starts in two weeks and I don’t want her stuck in by herself. If anything, to get her some clothes. I found a VRBO vacation rental across the street from her flat. Hoping I can get reasonable rates on the air fare.
There’s definitely a difference between Castilian Spanish accents and South American, Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, etc, etc. Most kids studying the language in Europe learn Castilian, so she may be conscious of other visiting interns speaking with an accent she doesn’t consider “American”. There are many South American visitors to Madrid speaking with their native accents. And, with the EU, there have been a number of young people relocating to Spain and learning the language with no prior experience. I know several Poles, a German and an Englishman who moved for the better weather. They hear it all in Madrid! Your D doesn’t need to feel embarrassed. I suspect she will feel more comfortable when things settle in for her, she gets over jet lag and knows the “territory” better.
But, I suspect I’d also be checking the next flight if this was one of mine. Good luck to you!
I have traveled alone and enjoyed it immensely. I went to Europe by myself when I was 23 for 7 months and it was the experience of a lifetime. I also enjoy traveling with family, but I have no problem at all going places by myself and having a very good time. I enjoy my own company and the chance to experience things without having to interact with someone else. We have a lake house. I often go alone and enjoy the quiet time. I read, nap, sit on the balcony and watch the sunset with a glass of wine. I’ve traveled to California for a few days on my own. I rented a car and drove the coast, staying in hotels along the way, meeting family every few days, and going off alone again. Recently, DH and I rented a beach house in North Carolina. DH couldn’t take off the whole week, but I went anyway and enjoyed a few days alone, exploring the area, sitting on the patio and taking in the beautiful ocean, etc. I go to movies alone fairly frequently, and have no problem going to a restaurant and eating a meal by myself. In general, I’m not a loner, but I have no problem being alone, and enjoy the times when I can find some time to myself.
D1 traveled to Europe this summer with her boyfriend, then continued on alone for 3 weeks after he had to go back to work. She paid for it herself, she is 26, and though I worried for her safety, there really was no way to keep her from going. And with my traveling history, there was really nothing I could say without sounding ridiculous.
The young woman referenced in the OP is much younger than I was and D1 is, so I might have more misgivings, particularly since she is apparently not very “street smart.” That would certainly give me pause.