<p>My 7th grade son started playing the alto sax (well, sort of) in the “beginner band” when he entered middle school last fall. My husband and I had told him that he was required to choose either band or chorus and not the third option (study hall). We also told him that he had to stick with his choice through 8th grade. </p>
<p>But now he doesn’t want to be in the band, and my spouse and I are wavering on our insistence. Our son has just gotten to the point where he can actually make music on the sax, and I suspect he will enjoy it more as his competency increases. However, the band will require a number of after-school practices this year in addition to the school-day sessions. Our son also plays one sport each season, does acting and some modeling, has weekly guitar lessons (all of these after school), and just started an accelerated math class (in school). This does seem like plenty, and the school-day study hall–which would replace band–might come in handy.</p>
<p>So … here’s the question: </p>
<p>Parents of older students … Can you recall times that you pushed your children into activities (or insisted that they stuck with existing ones against their will)? With hindsight, are you glad you pushed or was it a mistake?</p>
<p>I can only say that in my experience whenever I pushed, nothing good came of it. Since he already plays an instrument, I would let him drop band.</p>
<p>My kids started playing instruments in the school band in sixth grade. They have continued through high school.</p>
<p>It was a struggle at times, and we never have insisted on a lot of practice or private lessons, but it has proven to be worthwhile, especially when the increased proficiency allowed them to play better music and participate in things like marching band.</p>
<p>I suppose it would be different if a kid were involved in athletics, theater, or some other activity. For us, however, it was music or nothing, and we wanted our kids to be involved in something that took time and effort, and had a payoff in terms of a certain proficiency.</p>
<p>I would let the kid quit band, provided he was involved in some other activity.</p>
<p>I don’t see any reason to force your son to stay in band for 3 years. He tried it out. He doesn’t like it. Let him try chorus or do study hall. He has plenty on his plate.</p>
<p>Saying this as someone who participated in orchestra from throughout middle school and high school. I loved orchestra all of the time. It had nothing to do with competency. I liked it because I loved music and I loved being with music nerds. Not everyone feels that way. Fine that your son tried band. Fine, too, that he doesn’t want to do it any more. He is doing lots of things. It’s not like your son is someone who isn’t involved in any activities or has no hobbies.</p>
<p>I did not push my kids to do any EC activities that they were sick of. I think that’s a reason that in college, younger S got back into some activities that he had dropped when he was younger. For instance, after taking 2 semesters of an after school acting program in middle school, S decided not to do it any more. Apparently, he was afraid that he would forget his lines and screw up their productions.</p>
<p>As a college freshman, however, he took an acting class, soph year, he took another and was in a play, then decided to become a theater major.</p>
<p>When he was in elementary school, he stopped taking dance because his older brother teased him. In college, he took up ballroom dancing, and became very involved in it.</p>
<p>I remember my mother pushing me to continue taking piano in high school although I was sick of it. After high school, I didn’t play the piano again for 30 years. </p>
<p>As you can tell, I don’t think it’s a good idea to force kids to take ECs that they’ve lost interest in. Certainly let them fulfill their commitments such as finishing the season for a team sport, but otherwise let them follow their own interests.</p>
<p>My son wanted to quit sax at the beginning of HS. (He “hated” the band director, HS band had a reputation of being quite demanding. They also had to be in the marching band that started practices 2 weeks before the school year, and had to come on weekends to play at football games).
I insisted that he had to stay through his freshman year, and could quit afterwards if he really hated it as much as he thought he would. He ended up playing all through HS, joining the jazz band, sending an audition tape to college (which possibly set him apart at an extremely selective school), playing all through college (just for fun - no degrees in music…), going to European tour with his college band, etc.
So, needless to say, I do not feel bad about making him stick with it. But it can be a different story for different kids…</p>
<p>No warrenty express or implied for the quality or value of the following observations/communications.</p>
<p>We tell our kids “You can do anything but you can’t do everything”.</p>
<p>Suggestion; Make the kid write as essay about why he doesn’t want to be in band anymore. Require an analysis of how he will spend the time saved. If he does this and does a good job, he really wants out.</p>
<p>Our rule has always been that if you start something, you have to finish the season or the year of that thing. Our youngest son wanted to quit Boy Scouts soon after bridging over from cub scouts. We talked him into staying until about the start of 7th or 8th grade when it was apparent that he really disliked it and his plate was full with other things. He played in the MS band (trumpet) and orchestra (violin and then upright bass), and took piano lessons. He loved music and did not like camping, hiking and the other things about BS that his older brother loved. Part of the reason that we kept him in longer was because we didn’t want him to just be playing computer games. Once we realized that he really was stressing out over too much activity and not happy, we relented.</p>
<p>In high school, this same son decided to stop all music after ninth grade so he could take a computer programming class and get involved in the robotic team. This was another hard okay for us to give but an easy decision for our son. There is something very positive about letting the kids lead in their choice of activities. When it’s something they like to do, there is no nagging or reminders needed for the most part. </p>
<p>We would not have agreed to son dropping band if he didn’t have another EC in mind.</p>
<p>He does seem to have a lot of things going on. However, I do think that there is a chance that the precedent for getting out of something is being set. You need to set up some criteria for how these issues are handled.</p>
<p>Find out why he doesn’t want to do it. My kids liked music and their instruments. They just couldn’t handle the slow pace and monkeying around that went on in school band/orchestra. They fulfilled my requirement for music education through different ways.</p>
<p>Does he feel stressed about practicing enough? Does the instructor stress him in some way? Are the kids near him mean? Try to get him to identify where band is going wrong.</p>
<p>Does he like the guitar lessons? In your mind, would that satisfy that area of education? If he is doing well with that and you want him to continue band, could you back off on how hard he has to go at the sax? Have the guitar be his primary instrument and the sax be the for kicks instrument?</p>
<p>I agree with letting him quit if he has lots of other activities. He could always start again if he wants to. Band here starts in 4th grade. My D did band and chorus in 6th grade, and was 1st chair in flute, but did not enjoy it. Like twomules said, there was lots of sitting around doing nothing. So in 7th grade she did only chorus. In 8th grade she did neither and had the study hall. Now in 9th she is back in chorus. Music is something that can be picked up later if the interest returns. She is very busy with sports and other activities.</p>
<p>My oldest hated soccer and quit when she was 6 or 7. In college, she said to me that she wished I had made her stay in soccer. There was no way I would have insisted at that age that she play. She also wished she had learned to play the piano (we don’t have a piano). I told her she can always learn as an adult.</p>
<p>If you know another parent who has a band student in the high school your child will attend, talk to them about their child’s experiences. I have a couple reasons for suggesting this.</p>
<p>In some high schools, membership in band gives a kid an “instant social network” the minute they step into their freshman year, and for many kids this is a great thing. Band students tend to be good students and good kids. Just saying this is one thing to consider and many parents are surprised at the impact it has on their kids’ happiness and adjustment to high school.</p>
<p>By talking to another high school band parent, you can also get a feel for how much of a time-demand band represents at that level, how it fits in (or doesn’t) with your son’s sport, his acting, etc. If it becomes obvious that something will have to be dropped then anyway, it may inform your decision now.</p>
<p>I count 4 extra-curricular activites (5 if you count modeling) in addition to the accelerated math class. Do these keep him busy every night, or does he get 2-3 nights off during the week? Is every weekend packed? Do you find yourself having to choose between 2 activities that are going on at the same time, or driving him from one to the next, grabbing fast food in the car?</p>
<p>I think you need to look at the bigger picture. Kids have a long school day and need a little down time. Sports in particular can eat up many hours each week. </p>
<p>Maybe he would enjoy the band more if he weren’t so busy with the other stuff. What does he enjoy the most? What is YOUR priority for him? Is modeling? I would reconsider each activity and find a good fit for him that culminates in producing a happy, well-rounded son. If dropping band (or any of his many activities) attains that goal, then let him drop it.</p>
<p>Just a quick story: My son wanted to quit band around the same age. I said that he had learned to read music and could appreciate musicians, and that if he had other interests at this point, sure, he could quit.</p>
<p>He put his hands on his hips and said “You aren’t supposed to say that!” He then commented that other parents were forcing their kids to stay in band.</p>
<p>I again replied that I felt he had had enough exposure to music, that he had other things to do, and I felt that the choice was his.</p>
<p>He ended up staying in band for all of high school. He felt it was one period in the day when he could relax. He has very little talent, honestly, but still, at 23, uses music to relax. He plays music from his favorite bands on a CD player and does riffs on a keyboard. (At one point he took improv lessons from the school band teacher, because his mathemtatical tendencies led to a brief interest in theory)</p>
<p>If he had decided not to do band, that would have been absolutely fine, and things would not have been that different for him, so the decision was not earth-shattering. </p>
<p>The study hall sounds really valuable, with all the other things your son is doing. I would let him quit. Developing autonomy can be more important than band!</p>
<p>My S played trumpet from 3rd grade through 10th grade. He was not a dedicated musician but was fairly good, enjoyed playing, and had solos in elementary, middle school, and church. For the first two years of high school, we battled with the music teacher (he tried and I had to intervene when she got really pushy) over required evening practices which conflicted with his two varsity sports. She eventually compromised on the practices, he performed in the concerts, and he dropped band after his sophomore year. Now he has taken up bass guitar, which has become one of his passions. He practices for hours, has bought extra equipment with his hard-earned money, and is trying to fit private lessons into a very busy schedule. I am happy that he played the trumpet for as long as he did and regret the less than happy ending of his band experience but am glad that he found something for which he is willing to sacrifice. I understand why the band teacher was so pushy (her job was on the line if she lost any more kids) but I still wonder if S would have continued playing trumpet with a different teacher or if he was just ready to move on to something else.</p>
<p>I thought of my role in middle school was to ensure that my kids had a wide variety of experiences so that they could figure out what they liked and where they excelled. I also think that reading music is part of being educated and that playing with a group is a valuable experience. Your son now has the basics - if he ever wants to pick it up again he can. For my kids playing with an orchestra or band in elementary school made music more enjoyable, but for my older son a jerky band director in middle school killed his enjoyment. </p>
<p>Anyway what I am saying in an excessively convoluted way, let your son quit. He sounds like he already has a lot of activities including another music EC.</p>
<p>In my view, he already stuck with it for a full year and apparently doesn’t like it enough to continue with it. I understand the point, however, that you think he may enjoy it more now that he is getting more proficient at it and you could discuss that with him or have him talk to other kids who are instrumentalists about that. </p>
<p>However, I feel that playing an instrument is an EC endeavor and that EC activities should be ones that a kid CHOOSES and WANTS to do (unless they are very young and you are exposing them to possibilities). I can’t see making him stay in band if he really does not like it. Further, he already is taking lessons on another instrument. Perhaps as he improves at guitar, he might form a rock band with friends or see if the jazz band at school will take a guitarist. </p>
<p>The other issue is that in your son’s case, he is already involved in other worthwhile ECs. It is not as if he were to drop band, that he’d be sittin’ around the house. I found that when my kids got to 7th or 8th grade, the commitment to each activity started to increase and they sometimes had to pick and choose at that point which ones to stick with. Perhaps your son is choosing now to stick with theater, guitar, his three seasons of sports, and his occasional acting/modeling gigs. This really is the age when they start to choose, after being exposed to several activities up until that point. He truly has plenty. He need not be in both sports and band, and he is already playing an instrument (guitar) anyway with lessons. </p>
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<p>Admittedly, I have never pushed either of my kids to do certain activities. They chose the activities and if anything, pushed us to let them do them all. I honestly am not into pushing kids with ECs. These are things they should want to do as they are optional things in the first place (unlike like academics). The only exception I can see to that is that some parents have faced kids who really aren’t doing anything with their time outside the classroom and are not motivated to do so or not that interested and in those cases (which I admit to not having been in myself), I could see a parent insisting that a kid get involved in some type of committed activity of their choosing with guidance. But your son is not in that situation at all. He is CHOOSING the activities now, as an 8th grader, that he wants to commit his time to the most. </p>
<p>By the way, your son is finally old enough for you to be posting here as a parent!! Welcome to this side of it. :D</p>
<p>Every time I’ve ever let my kids quit something that they had wanted to do in the first place, they were upset with me later on for not helping them through the rough times so they could have been really good. It’s always been “if you didn’t let me quit when I got lazy, I could have ___________ now.” Is there anything he could regret later, like a special band trip or performance, or other perks that make sticking with it worthwhile? If you don’t continue, then you won’t get to ___________ kind of thing?</p>
<p>When our sons reached the “band age” we told them they could participate but that they needed to make the commitment through 8th grade. If they were not willing to make that commitment then we suggested they not play an instrument. Two of mine took the challenge and both enjoyed it, but quit when they reached high school as along the way they had other greater interests and the high school program at our school blocks out an inordinate amount of time. The third, decided that he could not make that commitment and had already launched into passions that he felt stronger about. The two that started on an instrument do not regret the years they held to the agreement and understood that the expense of the instrument and time was a commitment so that aspect in itself was a good lesson. It was a bittersweet experience for me when they gave it up (I studied music and play several instruments along with piano) but I also understand that the passion builds or it doesn’t and it serves no purpose to “force” kids into an EC for which they have no heart or soul especially once they hit 14 or 15 years of age.</p>
<p>I have a slightly different perspective than some of the other posters regarding instrumental music.</p>
<p>I would say that with choir or chorus, yes you can drop out one year and then pick it back up in a later year. With band, dropping out “usually” means you won’t come back in later. Not saying it can’t be done, but there are reasons why it almost never happens, so I wouldn’t count on that as an option.</p>
<p>And with piano. Yes, you can learn some piano as an adult. However, to be a fairly serious pianist, you must begin young and keep going for a number of years. I actually think with piano it’s neurological–don’t get me started.</p>
<p>My point for even mentioning this is that there is a lot of truth in the OP’s original observation about the investment of time required for competency to develop in instrumental music. You can probably see this with your son’s guitar. Only you can determine whether your son really dislikes playing the sax, and being in band, or just needs a little prodding to keep going.</p>
<p>None of this is to say that he should be required to continue band. Just part of the pondering process.</p>
<p>I should have explained that my son doesn’t actually hate band and isn’t begging to quit … he just said last week (before school started) that he wished that he wasn’t in it, and he makes jokes about hiding (or losing!) his saxophone.</p>
<p>The rationale for making him stay is that we feel that, if he is able to reach a somewhat higher level of proficiency, he may begin to enjoy the sax more. Of course, there are plenty of good reasons to allow him to bail, too … especially because this is going to turn into something of an in-school AND after-school venture this year. Last year it was primarily during school hours only.</p>
<p>I’ll always remember a “Dear Abby” column I read many years ago (back when I still had time to indulge my Abby addiction). Abby had asked adults if they were glad that their parents had forced them to stick with music lessons … somewhat akin to my own query this morning. </p>
<p>For days, Abby published the results, and I would estimate that they were equally divided into two camps. The first group said, “Thank God my parents pushed me. I love playing now and wouldn’t have ever learned if I hadn’t been brow-beaten.” But the other group claimed, “I grew to hate music because it was forced on me.”</p>
<p>So we’re still on the fence about the sax for now and will play it by ear … so to speak. As the semester rolls on, we’ll see if the complaints increase or decline. (Also, as the teen hormones kick in, there may be other reasons, besides the music, that will keep my son in tune with band practice )</p>
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