"You can't make me ... " YES, we can, but SHOULD we?

Parent Cafe
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<p>When I started this thread nearly two months ago, I thought I was asking a theoretical question. I wanted other parents (and their progeny, too) to share the pros and cons of urging (well, maybe forcing) a reluctant child to stick with an activity, at least long enough to reach a certain level of competence and/or to be absolutely sure that the time had come to drop it. I really wasn’t looking for specific advice about whether or not my own son should stay in his middle-school band, although I did get many very helpful responses, which I appreciate.</p>

<p>So I thought that some of you who weighed in might want to hear how our own saga has played out …</p>

<p>One Friday afternoon, not too long after I made my original post, I told my son that he needed to practice his sax every day all weekend. We had already received a reminder missive from the band teacher saying that the students were supposed to be practicing every day. I had struck a “deal” with her instead: due to football and other weekday commitments, my son would cram in all his practice hours over the weekend.</p>

<p>So on this particular Friday, I told my son that it was practice time, and he put his foot down and said that he really didn’t want to be in the band. So we called a family pow-wow, discussed the dilemma and finally agreed that he could drop the band. Once that little drama was over, my husband said, “Let’s go out to eat to celebrate having made a tough decision.” I said, “I’m glad we were able to discuss this and that a decision was made, but I can’t pretend that I’m in the mood to celebrate. I have really mixed feelings.”</p>

<p>But as the weekend wore on, I started to feel some relief that the battle of the band would be over. Then, on Sunday evening, I told my son that I would speak to the guidance counselor in the morning to get his schedule changed, but he would have to notify the band teacher himself. He asked me if I’d said anything to either one yet, and I told him I hadn’t. So he replied that he wanted to “try one more week” in band before dropping out. I said that that was okay … but that he would have to do all of his weekend practicing on the spot (which he did).</p>

<p>And that was the last we heard about dropping band. He returned to it with somewhat renewed enthusiasm, even occasionally bringing his sax home on weekdays when it wasn’t “required.”</p>

<p>I really don’t think he’ll go beyond middle school with band. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s my best guess. But we’re all happy that he’s already reached a noticeably higher level of proficiency on his sax than what we saw back in September. So if he does quit band next year, he’ll be at a place where he can more easily pick up the sax again later on, should he wish to do so.</p>

<p>With hindsight, I think it must have been important to my son to feel that staying in the band was his own choice. But I’m still not convinced that telling him it was okay to quit was the right choice, too, even though it seems to have worked out well this time around.</p>

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<p>Sally, how great that your S is staying with is EC. You’re right, he most likely does feel empowered since he’s made his own decision to stay. We did the same with our S. </p>

<p>His teacher told us that she reviewed his college app essay and she was impressed with his candor. He talked about how we forced him to join an EC that he knew he had always wanted to join but was too afraid. He went on to write about how this EC changed his life and allowed him to break out of his shell. Now, he’s going on to college with plans to continue this EC. I am happy that we pushed him into this EC. Sometimes, the adult knows better…we’ve always encouraged our kids to try…and they could make a good decision to stay or quit.</p>

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<p>Sally, I followed this thread but never weighed in, but I have to tell you how delighted I am to read the update. I just really appreciate your parenting on this one. Your enforcing the practice schedule, resulting in the pow-wow, allowing your son to feel empowered about his decision, and ultimately “giving in” but professing that you really weren’t happy about the decision (honesty), resulting in the weekend of non-discussion about it with your son deciding to stick with it after all, is just the way I wish could handle all my parenting all the time (but of course it doesn’t always work out that way). Kudos.</p>

<p>Maybe one lesson learned is that Friday afternoons and evenings are not a good time for major decisions when everyone is exhausted from the week.
:)</p>

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<p>Thanks so much lilmom and guitarist’s mom for your kind and supportive words (and for making it through my near-record-breaking wordy post. :wink: )</p>

<p>Indeed, Fridays are probably not good Major Decision days … but maybe no day is a good one for the tough calls.</p>

<p>I also realize that this middle-school stuff is still relatively easy. I’m steeling myself for the bigger, harder issues that may lie just ahead.</p>

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<p>I’ll just say “ditto” to most of the other posts and offer a unique response to one late nugget of detail…</p>

<p>Being a sax player myself, a point that I will contribute to this discussion is that your son may eventually get more benefit out of playing guitar than sax. With sax, you follow one line of music, one note at a time. You never play chords. Developmentally, you lose out on the musical multitasking skills required by guitar and keyboard.</p>

<p>In my conflicted opinion – dearly loving the concert and marching band experience – school bands are antiquated. Their music, sound, and style are outdated remnants of past generations. Imagine a band room full of guitars & synth keyboards instead of the horns that no longer exist in popular music. That’s more “with the times” and more closely resembles the student’s fantasies of stardom that they associate with music.</p>

<p>Another factor to consider in focusing effort on guitar vs. sax is that if you can play a guitar or keyboard at a party you become the coolest guy in the room. Pull out a sax and the room will be emptied.</p>

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<p>Sally–what a great ending to your saga! Sounds like win-win to me. :)</p>

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<p>CollegeDad–I am amazed at this thinking. A band instrument is something you can play all your life, if you want to. In our area there are many community bands that perform year round, and the UC (cincinnati) Summer Alumni/Community band has both alumni members and people who were never at UC but just want to make music.</p>

<p>Bands today play both arrangements of Top 40 (old term :D) hits as well as marches and concert “classics.” This serves an important function in exposing kids to music they may not hear anywhere else. </p>

<p>Sure, guitars and keyboards are popular, but that doesn’t mean we should throw out all the other instruments. </p>

<p>Would you tell a child not to learn violin because it’s old-fashioned and concert orchestras are a remnant of past generations? If they like the instrument and, just as important, enjoy the camaraderie of other musicians, I would encourage them to stay with it! </p>

<p>You never regret learning something, especially if you enjoy it.</p>

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<p>MomMusic, I was a bit surprised at my own thinking when it arrived in my mind. I dearly love playing sax and value the opportunity to play in school band as one of the greatest highlights of my memories. Even now, at 40 years of age, I play sax in our local community band and recently started playing the sax parts for a local rock band. The rationale behind my new thinking is that guitar & piano are better instruments for teaching music theory. The brain has to process more than one note at a time, recognize multiple parts to songs, and pay more attention to chords, scales, & structure. Starting on piano or guitar is more likely to lead a student towards developing good musicianship. I say that from experience of having started on the 1-note-at-a-time wind instrument and many years later found the job of reading treble and bass clef to be quite daunting.</p>

<p>Schools have an infrastructure that was put in place decades ago. Part of the challenge with today’s music programs is that they no longer fit the culture of modern generations. It’s hard to transform a multi-billion dollar infrastructure to accommodate such a radical change in musical culture. Adding a playlist of hip-hop Top-40 song to a high-step march across a football field is a fun start.</p>

<p>With my age and experience I’m qualified to now say that if I could do it all over again, I wish the countless hours that I practiced, played, and performed could have been dedicated to either a guitar or keyboard, rather than the sax. You can get more music out of those instruments for the effort, and look a lot cooler while doing it.</p>

<p>I’m not saying that kids shouldn’t join orchestra or band. I DO think that if schools magically found ways to integrate more pianists and guitarists into their music programs, more kids would want to join, stick with it, and would be more productive musicians (amateur or pro) after graduation.</p>

<p>Consider this: The game “Guitar Hero” is now HUGE! While Guitar Hero offers kids a popularly appealing introduction into the manual dexterity and timing required to use an instrument to create music, it doesn’t take them the rest of the way towards actually playing a guitar. I admit that the scuzzy-looking characters portrayed on the game seem like bad news to me, the game’s wildly popular success is a reflection of the type of music that today’s kids are really interested in. I just don’t see “Flute Hero” taking off anytime soon.</p>

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<p>Well, as the mom of an accomplished guitarist (duh), let me chime in and say how much I love listening to and watching sax players! I love watching marching bands too. And percussionists…</p>

<p>At the end of the day, if you have a passion for one instrument over another, or one sport or activity over another, that’s probably the direction you ought to go, don’t you think?</p>

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<p>I’m not musical at all but collgedad said something that I could actually understand. My S is in a marching band and in the beginning, he thought it was the greatest thing. In his jr. year, a friend formed a “rock” band and S joined in as a guitarist. I thought he’d do drums (he’s a drummer in marching) but he loves the guitar. He’s loving doing both righ now.</p>

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<p>It’s great to encourage both. DS started taking piano in 3rd grade which made beginning band in 5th easier. When the band teacher in 6th suggested he switch to oboe (from clarinet) he agreed. That interest (not at all an obsession) has opened plenty of opportunities. He taught himself to play guitar (acoustic, bass, electric) because I refused to pay for another music lesson and convinced him that all great guitarists taught themselves. :slight_smile: That said, he plays in band at school and our cities youth orchestra. I’m happy that he uses music as a way to relax and its a great EC!</p>

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<p>As a kid my parents pushed me to be sucessful but never made me join band or sport activites I suffered because when I got older I didnt have the talent to do anything but academic EC. I wish my mom would have made me do something but your son seems to have a lot of other things so as long as he keeps up some of them consistently I’d let him drop band.</p>

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<p>When my oldest child started HS, her best friend’s Mom MADE her D join an activity (she had a choice of which one). At the time my D was involved in dance, youth group and a travel sport outside of school so I just didn’t get it. Big mistake. It was very difficult for D to find her “place” in school when she didn’t have that association with an activity. She ended up in a winter season sport and what a difference that made!</p>

<p>S will be a freshman next year. I have already told him that he has to join an activity of his choice. It can’t just be a club that meets on occasion, but something more substantial.</p>

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<p>Piano is undoubtedly the most productive instrument to get kids started on before horns. As a young musician my piano-lessoned peers played circles around me. Piano provides more insight into musical structure, gives the ability to SEE the structure of scales and chords happen on the keys, offers manual dexterity through training both hands to work independently – that could benefits in sports, too. Finally, once you kick butt with a keyboard, the music you can create is exponentially improved with a synthesizer. Meanwhile, I’m researching electronic effect patches to make my sax sound like an electric guitar on stage.</p>