<p>^^^<br>
I don’t think strict “rules” are needed either, and I find Liberty’s oppressive. It was just a different expectation, one which generally goes against today’s norms. I just thought his reaction interesting, especially coming from a very different climate.</p>
<p>I was friends with my future husband long before we dated, and I think the relationship has a stronger foundation than if it had been sexualized early on.</p>
<p>^ Hmm… ok I guess that makes more sense (that his reaction was interesting). I just find it interesting that people play games they don’t want to play. I see it all the time and I’ve just never felt that pressure. </p>
<p>I think sexual liberation had the intention of giving people choices where instead it just gave more pressure to practice that sexual liberation. Kind of like how the feminist movement was supposed to give women equal opportunity to work inside or outside the home whereas instead it’s become “career woman” or failure/lazy. </p>
<p>Interesting.</p>
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<p>I’ve been thinking a lot about this, not just in regard to demonstrating sexual interest but just interacting with others in general. I think rules of interaction and courtship can be valuable for those of either sex who are shy, awkward, or insecure. Many young people literally don’t know how to signal interest in each other without being crude, because our popular culture offers no models for doing so. It’s all, “I’d hit that.” They veer from asexual buddy-buddy interaction with the opposite sex to full-on seduction. There’s no social dance. Just my observation watching the young people I teach.</p>
<p>NJSue, I think you’re spot on. I think the courtship rituals offered a pacing that would be helpful to many kids today.</p>
<p>I think there is a danger that a casual sexual environment with a lot of hook-ups can contribute to the objectification of women in the minds of young men–partly because they expect sex to be like what they’ve seen in porn.</p>
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<p>For those who want to try it – and this would usually happen after college – I think the online dating environment offers opportunities for courtship rituals and pacing, especially for those who make it clear in their profiles that they’re using the online dating service to search for a potential boyfriend or girlfriend, not a one-night stand.</p>
<p>The acts of signing up for such a service and choosing to communicate with someone there signal interest without being crude. The initial online interactions give the two people a chance to learn about each other without making any type of commitment. And, for careful users of such systems, if the online interactions seem favorable, they are usually followed by several in-person meetings – with each person traveling to the meeting separately – before the two people even tell each other where they live or work. Only when both people have become comfortable with each other (and used online resources to verify that the other person is what he/she claims to be) are the initial dates followed by riskier interactions such as going somewhere together in one person’s car or revealing the location of your apartment.</p>
<p>It’s not the social dance of previous generations, but it is a dance. Some people have started long-term relationships this way. And if nothing else, you get to go to a lot of restaurants.</p>
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<p>Yes. The popularity of “game” and pick-up artist strategies among young men is a sign that they are looking for rituals too; it’s not just young women. Unfortunately the PUA “community” is immature and misogynistic. There’s something very sad about young men looking for advice about how to talk to women on websites run by creepy rou</p>
<p>Quote: “I don’t see what the huge deal is about having multiple relationships prior to marriage --as long as it is done so safely. A broken heart you can recover from, AIDS or an unwanted baby, not so much.”</p>
<p>But here’s the thing - there is no such thing as doing it safely. There is no BC that is 100% effective all the time (c’mon, we all know people who’ve gotten pregnant while on the pill - or any other BC method) and there is no BC that can completely prevent the transfer of all STDs. It just does not exist. </p>
<p>I know that condoms are held up at the way to prevent STD’s and prevent conception but it does neither perfectly all the time. Even the CDC’s website points our that condoms a not always effective because they do not cover the entire genital area. So by design, they can not be completely effective. </p>
<p>So, we tell our kids that it’s ok to have sex as long as they are safe, but do they ever hear that it is not possible to completely safe? They can only decrease the odds of getting pregnant or of getting an STD. Sounds less than safe to me.</p>
<p>^ Considering rates of teen pregnancies and STIs are much lower in populations with comprehensive sex ed, yes I DO think that “hear” that it’s not completely safe.</p>
<p>While bookreader’s points are accurate, I think they presuppose something: that there is no significant benefit to having multiple sexual relationships before marriage. If there is no benefit, then even very small risks would be unreasonable. If there are benefits, though, you have to balance them against the risks.</p>
<p>Personally, I think the emotional risks are more significant than the risks of pregnancy and disease, and that the benefits are not as great as people think they are.</p>
<p>*"I think that too many 18-21 year olds aren’t really grasping the potential harm that they’re doing by having such a casual outlook about sexual intimacy. I do believe that engaging in serial hook ups can destroy ones ability to be monogamous in a future committed relationship. </p>
<p>Why ever be faithful? What would be the “big deal” when you’ve spent so many years convincing yourself that casual sex isn’t a big deal??? How do you switch gears from “sex is just fun and games and doesn’t mean diddly squat” to “sex is so important that you should only do it with your SO”. "</p>
<p>PG response:
Because now you’re in love. I don’t see what the huge deal is about having multiple relationships prior to marriage --as long as it is done so safely. A broken heart you can recover from, AIDS or an unwanted baby, not so much.*</p>
<p>Well, yes, during the “honeymoon phase” and “good times” I can see that happening. But we all know that during a long term relationship 10-20-30+ years feelings can go in cycles. One partner may not be feeling so “in love” at various times, so being “in love” won’t be the “stop gap,” especially after having a long period of singlehood that engaged in “one night stands/hook ups”. </p>
<p>I think the “jury is still out” in regards to this thinking. Even during my single years, people did have serial sexual partners but usually in the context of some kind of dating relationship. I only knew one sorority sister that had a one-night-stand. </p>
<p>I’m not talking about serial relationships…I’m talking about serial one-night stands…where that behavior is a person’s norm during singlehood.</p>
<p>What about “friends with benefits”?</p>
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<p>Honestly, I believe that sexual jealousy is hardwired into human nature, and it’s hard to maintain a sexual relationship with someone without becoming proprietary even if one does not intend to. I think that in a lot of those “FWB” situations, one person really wants it to be something else.</p>
<p>beach, as with all things in life, it works for some people and not for others. I’ve seen people that can do it “successfully” and others who failed miserably at it when one got attached.</p>
<p>Basically what I’m getting from this thread is don’t have sex with anyone. Ever.</p>
<p>Well obviously we all had children by parthenogenesis then!</p>
<p>Duh. Or the stork.</p>
<p>How about the cabbage patch?</p>
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Like everything else, sex has risks. The risks differ in different settings.</p>
<p>Since this thread asks about young women and I don’t have daughters, I’m trying to imagine myself with the following scenario…</p>
<p>If I had a 20-something D who had had a rather normal dating/sexual history (several boyfriend relationships that lasted weeks/months/etc), and she began to get serious with some guy who had been the “hook up king” throughout his single life…I would be concerned. It may be none of my business, but I would be concerned. </p>
<p>If such a guy had had 2-4 casual hook-ups per month over a period of 8-10 years, that could mean around 240-500 sexual partners. Eww. Yes, eww. And, it would be hard to convince me that this person would suddenly have an epiphany that would inspire him to be faithful to my DD in a multi-decade relationship.</p>