<p>Jack: Good post and exactly the pleasent situation it looks like we may be heading toward. Top four best fit, all offering merit and all good (well at least by oldolddad and youngyoungson self-constructed and clearly biased ranking schemes)</p>
<p>I would rather walk in the woods with a forester or a park ranger any time than sit at my desk looking at a computer and debating PSATs and SATs ;)</p>
<p>weenie: “I’m a lumberjack…” Sorry, you said forester. My bike riding bud is retired forest service and one interesting fellow!</p>
<p>According to this poll (2005), scientists have occupations that are viewed to be more prestigious than lawyers or business executives. Foresters are scientists. ;)</p>
<p>This list also points out that one can attend any school and still have a
“prestigious” occupation. On the contrary, one can attend a “prestigious” school and have a not so prestigious perceived occupation. :)</p>
<p>It is all relative!</p>
<hr>
<p>Occupations with the most prestige (2005) - Harris Poll</p>
<p>Scientist 52%
Doctor 52%
Firefighter 48%
Teacher 48%
Military officer 47%
Nurse 44%
Police officer 40%
Priest/minister/clergy 32%
Member of Congress 31%
Engineer 29%
Athlete 21%
Architect 20%
Business executive 19%
Lawyer 17%
Entertainer 16%
Union leader 16%
Actor 16%
Banker 15%
Journalist 14%
Accountant 10%
Stockbroker 10%</p>
<p>1sokkermom: I knew there was a reason for leaving that corporate job to become a teacher …ah the prestige. Tell my kids, their parents and my admin folks please.</p>
<p>Originally Posted by MoT
at the orientation session (I believe with parents present), it was announced that XXXX, who is a member of our entering class, earned perfect a SAT score </p>
<p>Cur and MoT, </p>
<p>This is one of the things that would concern me about DS taking the top $$ vs. a top school. DS is in a program where fully half will be NMSFs. Test scores aren’t a big deal; the kids have to test into the program, and only 1 in 7 are accepted. He’s dealt with high stakes admissions for years now, at the elem, MS and HS levels. The outliers there are truly extraordinary. He would have been an extreme outlier at our neighborhood HS, where they get one NMSF about every other year. </p>
<p>I don’t know that there’s a “stigma” (good or bad) attached to honors programs at most colleges, regardless of real/perceived/tier. I think living in a dorm is a great equalizer. (I have mixed feelings about honors dorms, FWIW.) Lots of kids get FA, and some get scholarships, some get preferential packaging, some get full need, some are full pay. And I understand that to some extent, the kids who get the big merit $$ are ambasssadors to the program – they are, in effect, getting paid by the school to bring a level of “star quality.” </p>
<p>But to be singled out at the beginning of orientation for SAT scores…wow. My kid would fall through the floor. As a parent of said kid, I’d be livid. But I think my anger would be directed at the professionals at the school who felt the need to make that kind of announcement in the first place. What is their point? So many kids want to make a fresh start and shed some of those stereotypes when they get to college, and to start their four years by doing that…</p>
<p>We had this happen with a toxic third grade teacher at our local elem school years ago who delighted in singling out DS’s extremes. We got the H-E-double toothpicks out of there.</p>
<p>Cur, did you (or the Amazing D) say anything to the administration?</p>
<p>
Those are the best kind of ranking schemes. 
So even though the “top” choice IS the scholarship choice , it is the fact that this personal ranking scheme violates the recognized ones and public perception that makes both your storyand jack’s story completely on topic even though a technical reading might not say so. I’m following your son’s story with interest.</p>
<p>CountingDown - I heard that the kid was very embarrassed - it is a college attended by quite a few of his high school classmates and so I heard the story second-hand from someone else who was there. My first reaction (besides that they should not have embarrassed him that way) was that it reflected very poorly on the college that they made such a big deal of calling attention to the fact that someone with high academic credentials chose to attend there.</p>
<p>Momcubed: Your second son lives at my house! (only here the second son’s a freshman, ditto the similar test scores, etc.)</p>
<p>Cur, did you (or the Amazing D) say anything to the administration?</p>
<p>Nah. I think she knew that it was going to get out eventually among the students and at least in her case it was a fellow student outing her. (and it wasn’t stats based.) She may have been more miffed had it been an official , but not too much. </p>
<p>She is so grateful for the opportunity she’s been given that overrides a lot. </p>
<p>"the kids who get the big merit $$ are ambasssadors to the program ". </p>
<p>That’s the price of cotton. She’s more than willing to pay it. She laughed about it when she told us.</p>
<p>Oooh. Maybe we have a number 5? Or is this included sufficiently under another number?</p>
<p>I’ve got to be away for a few but “Be willing to serve as an ambassador to the program.” could be a 5.</p>
<p>Thanks, curmudgeon and oldolddad. I’m on my way out the door to watch the Duke women’s basketball team, and then NC State’s women’s team (a double-header!). I’ll try to answer your question later.</p>
<p>Weenie,
DS2 (my outdoorsy, interested-in-everything-except-math IB kid) went to a summer program doing bay restoration and learning to sail a 18th century boat a couple of years ago. (Terrific program run through the state dept. of ed. A week on the boat was cheaper than a week of day camp. Of course, this camp didn’t have to pay $ for showers, weither. ;)) Just got the latest newsletter listing this summer’s staff: folks with forestry and history majors, coming from schools including Stanford, Chicago, Pitt, W&M. </p>
<p>DS2 was reading Tom Friedman’s “The World is Flat” while on this shakedown cruise. Led to many intersting discussions with the staff about jobs ion the global economy, why they chose to pursue their paths, etc. I expect this kid will take the road less traveled. It may give his father a heart attack, but this is who DS is. I have no doubt DS2 will have fascinating life stories to share with his children one day!</p>
<p>1sokkermom -</p>
<p>I wasn’t sure I believed you, so I googled it. You are right, though they list this as 2004 numbers. Things have changed a little bit in the last two years. I was ****ed that Engineers fell below members of congress, but that has switched. Still don’t understand why real estate agents are on the bottom. Since 1977, teachers are up 13 points, laywers down 15.</p>
<p>2006 numbers
“I am going to read off a number of different occupations. For each, would you tell me if you feel it is an occupation of very great prestige, considerable prestige, some prestige or hardly any prestige at all?”</p>
<p>(Very great prestige)
Firefighters 63%
Doctor 58%
Nurse 55%
Scientist 54%
Teacher 52%
Military officer 51%
Police officer 43%
Clergy 40%
Farmer 36%
Engineer 34%
Member of congress 28%
Architect 27%
Athlete 23%
Entertainer 18%
Accountant 17%
banker 17%
Journalist 16%
Union leader 12%
Actor 12%
Business exec 11%
Real estate agent 6%</p>
<p>** In surveys prior to 2001 we used the words policeman (now changed to police officer) and businessman (now changed to “business executive”) which may account for the changes from 2001 to 2002.</p>
<p>***In surveys prior to 2006, we used the word fireman (now changed to firefighter) which may account for some of the changes from 2005 to 2006.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=685[/url]”>http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=685</a></p>
<p>Returning to the original topic of the thread…</p>
<p>I would not borrow more than $5k/year for undergrad school under any circumstances I can think of. If, due to a deadbeat dad or other reasons, I got zero fin aid and had no way to pay tuition at HYP, I would have gone to state school or taken merit money.</p>
<p>This is coming from someone who thinks (and her parents who wrote the checks agree) that her HYP education would have been a bargain at twice the price, and who would not have accepted a trust fund as a bribe to take a scholarship instead. Spending money you already have is fine in my book. Borrowing money you don’t have is not unless, as with law school tuition, you’re borrowing in order to buy an investment with a secure financial payoff.</p>
<p>Weenie,
When we have visited national parks, many of the folks were history majors who loved the outdoors. Given that DS2’s passions are enviro sci and history, this may not be a bad route to take! I do know he will NEVER be the kind to sit at a desk all day.</p>
<p>Dad o2</p>
<p>Psychologist isn’t even on there. The kids I worked with as a psychologist wondered why I’d left my career as a nurse. It was a job they understood. Nursing paid terribly when I did it and the hours were worse. I think it’s better now.</p>
<p>How about this for number 5</p>
<p>In return for the exceptional perks, you must be willing to meet the expectations and demands outlined by the grantors of said perks (could be the school, could be the organization or individual that donates to make the perks possible). Or maybe it is a question not so much of being willing but rather feeling that meeting those expectations won’t substantially impact your educational experience in a negative way. </p>
<p>This cover maintaining required grade point average, acting as ambassador, doing research, following particular major path, doing community work or overseas travel, going to those terribly exciting scholarship dinners, hosting prospective scholarship students, etc.</p>
<p>First, this has been a great discussion. </p>
<p>Second, I’m surprised more people haven’t focused on what the student in question wants to do after undergrad. For a serious humanities-oriented student, the ‘top school’ may make more sense in that the prestige of the alma mater may make getting into grad school (or even getting that first job) that much easier. That extra $$ spent for the top school and its tangible and intangible benefits may prove to be a wise investment. Engineers, on the other hand, will be employable (and generally well paid) virtually anywhere they graduate from.</p>
<p>katliamom, I agree with your post 698 and have wondered, pondered the same.</p>
<p>Farming is very prestigious, ha ha - they must be asking ppl in urban areas who obviously have never shoveled manure, picked rocks, thrown hay bales, milked cows at 5 a.m., etc. I’m sure it is a romantic-sounding lifestyle to those tortured cubicle & office-bound souls, but the reality isn’t fun at all. Or at least it wasn’t fun being a kid, i.e. “manual labor,” growing up on a farm. I’ll take my air-conditioned office and comfy chair these days, thank you very much.</p>