Oh absolutely. A bunch of prep schools meet full need, though they are not need blind in admissions.
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Many families are better funded by BS than colleges, particularly middle class families. So whether itās considered in admissions or not, FA could be more generous than this family expects it to be IF this student is one the school wants in its community.
With that said ā and there are other threads here about this ā the PG path is a great option for only a small group of students for a whole host of reasons. Athletes, particularly those who play a sport where schools, not elite leagues, field most of the teams (,i.e., football) often fit into this small group. They in turn keep the teams competitive. Win win.
Not to say the OP shouldnāt consider PG, but it can be a tricky needle to thread. Which is presumably why they are looking at other options as well.
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Interesting comment. Could you expand upon ācan be a tricky needle to threadā ?
One issue is whether the student really wants to do ā13th gradeā while their peers are off to college.
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For athletes who are holding conditional commitments and need a year to get bigger and stronger and maybe get their academics up to snuff, this can be an easy decision. Itās going to be hard to play football during a gap year!
But many kids who have less compelling reasons find the idea of another year of high school awful. Your friends are off to college and all its freedoms and youāre off to whereabouts rules, one-strike policies, and about to join a class who have mostly been together for the last 3 years. So first of all, you have to be in the mindset to graduate from high school and then go back to high school, albeit a different one.
Then itās finding the right fit. You need to find a place that offers what you need (for PGs specifically). Help with study skills, learning center, classes in certain subjects at a certain level? And socially, a path that works. Again, for athletes, itās teammates. But finding your way, and quickly, can be trickier in a small, tight community like that, especially when older students have leadership roles and youāre a noob . Thereās a reason that many kids in the OPāS position might instead choose to attend BS and reclass as a junior for an eatlier entry and 2 yearsā¦ That also sets them up better for college counseling.
And if this is a kid who faltered earlier in high school, you want to find a situations where they can thrive and build confidence. (So the suggestions above of a PEA or PAA or such may NOT be the place where that is going to happen.)
Over the years, Iāve known quite a few folks who have done PG years. Almost all were athletes. And most were hyper-focused on what they wanted the year to be. I think that for families who end up looking for options without that focus, developing reasonable expectations and then meeting them can take a lot more effort. Not that it canāt work ā even brilliantly.
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Thank you for your response.
I, too, am familiar with PG studentsāboth athletes and non-athletes.
Foundation years in other countries, be it the UK, the rest of the Europe (or really the rest of the world) prepare students, very specifically, for entry into the university systems for this specific country. The background for this is that the rest of the world, unlike the US, either has official high school finals or university entrance examinations and thus a required standard for university entry which international students may not meet for various reasons, also they may also need further prep in the language of instruction.
As a rule, you have to apply to a university in the country with the qualifications you have and they will either admit you, deny you, or admit you to their foundation program, with admission to the university proper conditional on passing the required subjects (which are the usual - language of instruction, math, sciences, social sciences, possibly a foreign language. The UK is a bit different, since you specialise after 16, not 18 there).
They do not prepare you for university in the US, and places are limited to students who actually want to stay in the country.
Your daughter has very different goals and admission to a foundation year abroad might involve some very elaborate deception.
High school exchange programs like AFS and YFU are not geared towards academic growth in maths and sciences, but personal growth and learning the language and experiencing the culture of the country. Unless your D is fluent in another language than English, it is highly unlikely for her to be able to access college prep level instruction in maths and sciences.
In the UK, an A level program consists of 3 (some kids take more) two year courses geared towards in depth study of related subjects at university, taken in junior and senior year, with at least a C in those subjects in 10th grade finals (called GCSEs) as a prerequisite. (If sheās read Harry Potter, OWLs and NEWTs are parodies, but explain the system quite well). She would not be able to access senior year courses in maths and physics, because those are second year courses. She might be able to access junior year courses, but would be with kids 2 years younger.
Unless youāve made a study of it (or were forced to due to international migration) it is hard to fathom just how different the US transition years (last years of high school and first years of college) are to whatās happening in the rest of the world.
The academic path you are planning for her is US high school-[something for academic growth in maths and sciences]-US 4 year college. Affordable international options will not fit that path.
The US system does not really have options for academic growth outside the college system for 18 year olds. You go to the college that fits you at the time and learn and grow there. Some colleges may agree to defer entry for a gap year with some community college credits taken in the mean time (which means you must find a job or internship for meaningful occupation of the rest of her time), some will only accept her as a transfer student after, which she does not want. She may have to make a choice here.
Because the other options is to go to the four year college which accepts you with the qualifications you have and take the classes that are required for the major you want.
Iām sure that for a lot of money, there are boarding schools in many parts of the world that will offer a PG year, but very rarely offer financial aid - these options are geared towards athletic growth for parents who can afford them.
You have one year to get her ready for a US college while still in high school. Use it.
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Agree except for your stated limitations regarding US boarding school PG programs. Many offer need based financial aid and accept non-athletes.
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Always ready to admit that itās the international part, not the US part, that is my expertise.
Not disputing that schools admit non athletes to their PG years (a quick Google says about 20 percent of the small cohort of PG admits). Nor disputing that they may offer FA to students they want in their community.
Just wondering whether those arenāt primarilyā¦.the athletes.
And possibly some kids which are highly accomplished in something other than athletics which is, for some reason, institutionally important to the school. I just donāt see that here. The student just wants to take AP calc and physics and try out software development before committing to an engineering major. But in the US, thatās what the first year or two of college are for.
Nothingās stopping the OPs kid from applying to Exeter and Andover or Gould to spend a year taking AP calc, physics C and software development, and apply for financial aid to do so. Without knowing what āfinances are limitedā means, it sounds highly unlikely to me that itās going to be financially viable. Iām sure if the OP reaches out to these places, they will be able to gauge what the chances are.
Note also that for a student whose parents think she isnāt ready for the experience of an American LAC, a UK FE college, with dorms, is ABSOLUTELY not the right fit. Yes, Iām shouting.
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Curious as to why - more freedom than BS and zero consequences academically since she would have graduated HS. Just the different approach to the teaching of math would be useful in creating thinking flexibility, as well as the more independent style of learning with higher stakes exams and less hand holding than in a US HS.
Do you mean in terms of rowdiness? Academic intensity? Commuter nature? Cultural issues?
Imho, YFU/AFS is a great opportunity to grow&learn and since many countries have specialized tracks OPs daughter could totally work on maths/physics/CS itād kill 2 birds with one stone. However OP thinks sheāll be past the birthday limit.
Has she participated in a summer engineering camp? I donāt know if any are still accepting students for this summer (Iāve heard good things about the programs at Rose-Hulman and Purdue), but this could be an option to help see if engineering is something that she wants to pursue.
Rather than planning a postgrad year, has your family thought about her doing 5 years of college at a non-tech school, and then just slowing the pace down so that she feels she can
I know youāve mentioned 3/2 programs at some liberal arts colleges, but choosing a college that offers engineering at the campus could allow things to slow down (i.e. taking an 8-semester plan and pacing it out over 10 semesters). Apart from tech-focused colleges, colleges will also have significant liberal arts available. And itās not uncommon for students to take 5 years to graduate rather than 4, but she will have been building her social network the entire time at the same school.
As I donāt know what the financial constraints are, Iām not sure what options would appeal.
But there could be something like this program at U. of Tulsa, which makes sure that there is 5-years of financing:
Villanova is larger than most liberal arts colleges, but definitely mid-sized and has a number of engineering study abroad options:
https://www1.villanova.edu/university/engineering/academic-programs/undergraduate/study-abroad.html
Or thereās a school like Miami University which many have said feels like a larger College of William & Mary with a very liberal arts feel, but that has many ABET-accredited engineering fields (from biomedical to electrical to mechanical to chemical, but, notably, not civil). They also freeze tuition, room & board for four years, and Iāve heard rumors that Ohio publics are considering extending the freeze for five years (and at Ohio State, at least, families also have the right to appeal for a fifth year, which may be an option at Miami that I didnāt see mentioned).
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The problem is that we still donāt really know why exactly OP thinks their D needs an extra year to āgrow and matureā in comparison to her cohort. Whatās her academic and developmental delay?
Apparently she will be 18 sometime in 12th grade, so isnāt younger than her grade level (disclaimer, currently organising a gap year for a high school graduate who was accelerated for grade school, so literally needs another year to grow up).
There are no hints as to learning disabilities, a spectrum disorder, mental or physical health issues, traumatic experiences affecting her high school years.
Covid has affected some kids more than others, but again, no hints as to say wh it might have affected her more than her cohort.
It isnāt even that she doesnāt have the grades. OP says that her grades and accomplishments and ACT are fine for top 50 LACs, where they want her to go. But while they think the D might āsurviveā, it would not be āidealā, because she still needs another year to āgrow and matureā. But with rigorous academics.
But kids who can not just handle, but seek out rigorous academics, do not take AS levels at FE colleges in the UK at the age of 18 or 19. They go on to do A and AS levels at comprehensives or grammar schools after GCSEs at the age of 16 - if they arenāt at independent schools in the first place). Or they go on to do vocational classes at FE colleges because they couldnāt handle A levels at that time.
And if those kids, who could have handled the academics of A levels, did not do that at 16 but go back to FE colleges at 18 to do so, they are basically high school dropouts, and while the reasons they dropped out may or may not have been under their control, they are rarely good.
And those 18 and 19 year olds in FE colleges are adults and will be treated a such. Itās not just less handholding than at a US high school - itās much less than at any US LAC! If this 18 yo US student is supposed to just about survive an LAC, she will sink without a trace at a FE college. Even junior year college students at Oxford or Cambridge colleges struggle with the sudden jump in independence thatās expected.
Programs like AFS or YFU, which take high schoolers abroad into unfamiliar education systems work because they put them in high school environments and host families, where thereās a lot of supervision and control. Thatās also why they donāt want them older than 18, because itās hard to control an adult who can legally drink, smoke, have sex and move out (but would then suddenly be an illegal Immigrant theyād be responsible for). Turning 18 as a senior is fine, being 18 and a high school grad when setting out is not.
Her academic level is perfectly normal for a US high school graduate, pre calc as a senior is a regular math track, and how many students study software development in academically rigorous tracks?
A protected environment for 18 yo to grow and mature in, to try out academic subjects at college level to find out which direction would be right before committing to a major, is precisely what US LACs offer, and other education systems, quite simply, donāt. They literally want her to spend an extra year doing so, in a 3-2 program.
Basically, they want to redshirt a high school graduate like a kindergartner. Make sure she knows she can succeed in calc and physics before college so she can take those subjects in college again.
If she can get admitted to a PG year at an independent school and get financial aid, yay, I guess thatās theyāre looking for. But they wonāt find that abroad, for a legal adult.
The only specific academic omission in high school that the OP mentioned is not taking high school physics, although there is still 12th grade to add it, or other options without needing a ā13th gradeā year.
While the OP doesnāt need to share all of the info, I feel as if it is tough to advise without GPA (or class rank) and test scores. Also, I donāt know if the foreign language question was ever answered.
The only situation I have personally seen with something similar - aside from athletes - was a kid in my HS class 40 years ago. She was (and is) very bright, though there was some question if she would graduate, as she almost failed a class or two. This is a student that had > 1500 SAT, back when that was rare, multiple years of perfect scores on a national foreign language exam, etc.
I attended a private school, so I think the OPās situation is a bit different, but this studentās local public school allowed her to take classes for a year - whether it was a 12th grade āredoā or a PG year - and then she went to college. She had some other issues going on too. Went to a school on the other coast, was able to have a fresh start academically and socially, all of which was good.
Is there any possibility of attending a local private school (if that is available), or paying for a year at a nearby public school (other than the school she currently attends)? Around here, you can pay to attend a public school other than the one in your district, though not a lot do that as it is 1) expensive and 2) there are a lot of private schools around here.
Also, as I have commented on other threads, I am floored that HS students donāt need to take biology, chemistry and physics. The schools around me, both public and private, require that all students take those three lab sciences - no exceptions. Is there not any way for this student to take physics next year, even if it is regular physics, not honors or AP level?
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Thank you for these ideas @AustenNut
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Hi @Tigerle This is what we are finding as well. US system is , well, broken.
She will just have to exert herself in college and perhaps not be able to even minor in an area that she loves and excels in that would prepare her for her other ambition - law school). She does not really want to do a PG year or do a gap year with some classes at community college (she does not want to live at home).
Going to college for 5 years is another option (summer classes alone will not cut it) but merit scholarships are only good for 4 and not 5 years. Public university can ameliorate this however they tend to be large in our state (with large classes) and only 1 school in our state of many public universities has students that match her (in GPA and ACT scores) and the classes are large.
2 years at a community school than 3 years at say the top, and very affordable, universities in the Netherlands and Belgium is another option ā but they have large classes and little housing.
These have small classes, allow for the study of different subjects, and offer housing
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Thanks for your thoughts. We did ask the local high schools about an additional year and they do not permit it (finances assumed to be the root cause). Local private schools do not accept 12th graders or 13th.
She has the median ACT score of students accepted at Amherst College (according to their 2023-24 CDS data section C9) so hovering right around that 1500 SAT if converter. She is just a late bloomer.
Honors colleges public schools will typically have small classes and often other perks like honors dorms. Has your family condered. That as an option?
If you are willing toshare your college budget, whether your family will qualify for sufficient need-basd aid (try Princetonās Net Price Calculator as it is amongst the most generous), and any other parameters or interests forhe college search, posters would be happy to help brainstorm college ideas for your D, as it apers she is now a senior and application deadlines are coming soon. Alternatively, you could post a chance me/match me thread.
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