<p>Is it true that out of state students must be in the top 10% of their class in order to be accepted? I have looked at statistics, but I’m still concerned. My class is unranked, but here’s my dilemma:
I recently had my application reviewed by an officiate of the Jefferson Scholarship. It was nothing official, just something personal to learn about my personal chances. I spoke with him on the phone and he told me mainly that Virginia (by “law?”) must hold out-of-state students to a certain standard, being that they must be in the top 10% of their class. He told me that I had no chances since I wasn’t in the top 10%. Now, my class is not ranked and it will not be on my transcript that I am in the top 15-20% of my (extraordinarily intelligent/brilliant) class of 64. I assume that he knows I’m not in the top 10 because he has interviewed a very bright student who is in the top 10% for the Jefferson Scholarship. Do they really have this sort of an unspoken cut off?</p>
<p>I spoke with another man who interviews for the Jefferson Scholarship and he sugar-coated it a little more by saying that my GPA was very good and I would be valedictorian of any other school, it’s just that my school is extremely competitive (the best in my city).</p>
<p>No, it is not true that there is a top 10% cutoff for out-of-state applicants. I go to an excellent public school outside VA that does not rank and was accepted early action last month.</p>
<p>On the other hand, out-of-state students usually need the credentials that someone in the top 10% would have: high GPA, along with the high SAT, good extracurriculars, and awards that normally accompany it. But that’s true for any top college. I think you’ll be fine!</p>
<p>Per the school’s website, over 93% of <em>enrolling</em> students were in top 10%, so I would guess the number for <em>accepted</em> students is even higher than that. I seem to recall seeing a statistic somewhere (perhaps DeanJ’s blog?) that said it was 98%? Given those numbers, I’d say a top 10% standing is a de facto requirement, if not de jure.</p>
<p>Case Study: DS is a Virginia resident, with a 2220 SAT (1520 CR/M), 4.5 weighted GPA (IB Diploma program), JV & varsity soccer + 10 years of rec league and 6+ years of piano. He applied EA. He was in the top 11% of his class at the end of junior year, but had fallen down a bit by the time senior year started because a huge number of rising seniors dropped out over the summer. (He attends a magnet school where many non-IB kids are just counting the days until they can drop out.) I’m guessing he ranked in the top 12-13% when he applied. </p>
<p>Outcome: Rejected outright – not even deferred. </p>
<p>Who knows what went through the reviewers’ minds, so make of it what you will. But he writes very well if not passionately (he’s more of a math/business type), so I assume his essay responses were decent. And both of his teachers who wrote recommendations seem to really like having him in their classes. To me, the circumstantial evidence of a hard 10% cut-off (absent other compelling factors) is pretty strong.</p>
<p>The best place to go for institutional data where you can put it in context (all due respect to Dean J, and I’m one of her biggest fans) is going to be the common data set. The most current year available is 2011-12, the students entering in fall of 2011, so dated by one year. Obviously each year this is going to inch up a bit, but the number I want to point out is at the very bottom (the bold is mine):</p>
<p>More and more schools are not reporting rank. For the class entering in fall of 2011 only 46% reported rank. Now, because the profile gives a wealth of information it’s pretty easy for our astute admissions officials such as Dean J and co to judge what decile an applicant falls in even if that datapoint isn’t given. It’s just more math (and annoying I’d assume). However, that does mean that if the other 56% reported rank this number could be the same, higher, or lower. We don’t know. Rarely would anyone say something is an absolute when you only have 46% reporting in any situation. Strong trend, yes. Absolute, no.</p>
<p>As a follow on, I would be very interested to speak to the person who said it was a law that Virginia residents had to be in the top ten percent of their class to be accepted to UVa. The only law, as in legislation, that I’m aware of that exists regarding admissions to UVa is the ratio needs to be 2/3 instate and 1/3 OOS.</p>
<p>@Marita – I don’t see why the 98% figure wouldn’t effectively hold for those from schools that don’t report rank. Of course, UVA wouldn’t (and shouldn’t!) hold the lack of rank against those applicants, but as the poster above said, I would think their credentials would need to be commiserate with a top 10% ranking.</p>
<p>Don’t know if that is referring to my original comment, but just in case it was … by “de facto” requirement, I meant practically speaking. “De jure” means by law, which it isn’t. </p>
<p>(And if your comment wasn’t responding to mine, then please ignore me )</p>
<p>^ No, not at all, it was in reference to the first post where evidently someone led an OOS applicant to believe this was a fact. OOS applicants don’t need any more stress. I’m sorry I didn’t make it clear in my post. It may simply be that the applicants that are successful in admissions happen to be in the top 10% a great deal of the time.</p>
<p>Donimar - I absolutely do appreciate your frustration. Your student works hard and everything looks like a match. The instinct is to look for something ‘wrong’, fallen short. The fact is most of the time there isn’t anything. S2 is a second year and the year he applied his best friend was denied, a big head scratcher…in state, top 5%, rigor, double varsity athlete, captain in both, academic honor societies, lots of tutoring hours, teachers loved him so assuming great LORs, etc, etc. Sometimes from our end things don’t add up. I can say he’s at a peer university having a blast and doing well academically, so it all worked out.</p>
<p>@blueiguana - I’m not disappointed or frustrated, because I think he’ll be happier elsewhere. But if it wasn’t the class rank, then the process must be awfully random when an <em>in-state</em> student with his credentials is rejected outright at the EA stage.</p>
<p>UVa does not have any cut offs. That goes for GPAs, rank, test scores, or number of AP/IB/DE courses. Every school is different. The school profile sent by the counselor is what we use to calibrate to read each file. There are vastly different methodologies being used to calculate this stuff these days. </p>
<p>Are you calling this person an “officiate” or did they use that term?</p>
<p>Here is some objective evidence supporting Dean J’s statements above --</p>
<p>The top magnet school in Virginia (and considered by some the top public high school in the country) sends 100+ students each year to UVa out of a graduating class of around 400. Many many more are accepted by UVa. So clearly there is no hard and fast 10% requirement.</p>
<p>@Dominar: That’s what I said in my first post (that students from unranked schools would normally need the credentials that someone in the top 10% would have). I linked to the source you cited to show that unranked students are not included in the 98% figure.</p>
<p>Dominar – just re-read your post more carefully. Your Ds’s VA school sounds a lot like our local school in NoVa. My advice to NoVa public HS students not at TJHSST, is that one should strive to be in top 5% for UVa – certainly not a hard and fast cut-off, but seems to mirror the admissions results in large high schools. That said, even with the new grading scales, I am surprised a 4.5 GPA in a very diverse HS would put one outside the top 10%. </p>
<p>If you are inclined or have younger ones who will face the college process, I recommend a meeting with your school’s guidance department. First I would want to know if there is some insight they could provide to help explain your son’s response from UVa. Assuming there is nothing new from that conversation, I would move the conversation – and maybe include the school principal in this – to talk about whether your school needs to do a better job explaining the school’s demographics and strengths of the student body to colleges such as UVa.</p>
<p>Katiebuggers et al, – if you attend a school, in VA or outside, with highly competitive admissions and where the vast majority of students would be in the top 10% of more typical high schools, ranking outside the top 10% of your class wouldn’t be de facto preclusive for admissions to UVa. Think Exeter and the like or TJHSST in Virginia. The key for schools less well know than the examples above is to make sure UVa, and other selective colleges for that matter, fully understand the make up of the student body and the rigor of the curriculum.</p>
<p>@AVA55 - LOL, one person who repeated the top 10% “rule” to parents and students was the school’s IB director! :)</p>
<p>But seriously – I think you’re assuming a lot from a guidance counselor. While there are undoubtedly some great HS guidance departments out there (our home district school has one), most are just trying their best to keep up with transcripts, recommendations, course selections, etc. with very little staff help. This is particularly true for schools in economically disadvantaged areas like S’s school. They simply don’t have the time to get to know the students, much less individual colleges and their practices/preferences. </p>
<p>The same is true for the principal – when you are primarily concerned with just keeping kids safe in a neighborhood where drugs and shootings are not uncommon, while hopefully helping most of them develop some basic skills with which they can find some sort of job after graduation, you aren’t going to spend much time worrying about whether the school is doing a good job explaining its demographics to colleges. (To give you some idea – parents attending a meeting at our home school check in via an iPad, whereas many parents at S’s school don’t even have email access.)</p>
<p>That’s one reason why, as I understand it, each college has local reps whose <em>job</em> it is to know the particulars of each HS within their region. They are supposed to know the courses each school offers, its demographics, etc. And they certainly should be familiar with the rigor of an IB diploma program, although we did hear UVA reps on different occasions say that they didn’t really consider IB to be anything that special (?! – come to think of it, that could explain a LOT!).</p>
<p>Admission officers at UVa are quite familiar with the IB. It is not new or unusual.</p>
<p>I find it very hard to believe that any admission officer (much less multiple ones) were anything but positive about IB programs. Please contact me if you have further questions.</p>
<p>I myself thought the 10% cut off was in effect at UVA. After Early Action results came in, however, I found two students in my school that were in the top 15% that got accepted in to UVA. So this year, I would say it is definitely inaccurate.</p>
<p>Wow thank you all for such great discussion. I spoke with my brother who is now a college freshman about his classmates at UVa. He told me that some were in the “top 10” and others weren’t (although they don’t rank). His school is similar to mine, so that fact along with all of these posts from such kind members is reassuring that I am not automatically cast out.
I can’t exactly recall what the man I spoke with said. He is an interviewer for the Jefferson Scholarship in my area. I was set up with him by a family friend in the hopes that he could advise me a little more. Perhaps this was his way of saying that after reading my entire application that I may not be the best candidate for acceptance into UVa. Regardless, I’ll be sure to take his advice with a grain of salt now.</p>
Please don’t think this! If you have questions or concerns please contact the admissions office, or Dean J at her blog, on twitter, or facebook. The Jefferson Scholarship Foundation is a wonderful program and a great opportunity for some students. The JSF is not officially affiliated with the university. The area representatives are not necessarily experts on admissions. Although well meaning I’m sure, please don’t read any further into a comment from someone who doesn’t represent UVa admissions.</p>
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