Some young people ‘go along’ to appease their parents/grandparents/relatives because although they recognize it is a family event/celebration, they also realize that faith/church is very important to many of these important people in their lives. Some will ‘go along’ because their parents may not be willing to finance any part of the wedding that is not ‘in the church’.
DD2 is away from our Catholic faith. She already received $$ when her sister got married (we do the same for each of our DDs financially, and we agreed the funds then was important for ‘the same’ money). DD2 has been thinking about a wedding for quite a while (steady exclusive BF for 6 years), and she is ‘absorbing’ that her sister and her sister’s children cannot ‘stand up’ in a wedding party that is not a Catholic Church wedding. We can come as part of the group/guests. DD1/SIL/young grandkids are very devout in the faith.
DH’s aunt/uncle did not attend some of their children’s weddings because they were away from the faith. I found that ‘harsh’ and closed doors in the relationship - but it is a bit of that generation and also I imagine the thinking was ‘they are adults, let them go do what they want but I don’t have to participate in bad choices’.
The reasons why people don’t want to get married in the church are varied and complex
People don’t identify with faiths like they did before. Marrying outside your faith is common.
And the rules churches (or synagogues or mosques) put in place don’t allow for flexibility. I have no idea why children can’t be “allowed” to be in a wedding party if it’s not within their faith. Having the banns read. Premarital counseling. Agreeing to raise any children in your faith. I’m sure there are other “rules” that young people aren’t into anymore.
These “rules” seem arbitrary and limiting. I’m putting rules in quotation marks because what would happen if you broke them? It’s like not getting my rings closed on my Apple Watch, I’m pretty sure the sun will still come up tomorrow. If I believe, I’m pretty sure my god will let me go to heaven if I don’t tell them my kid was a flower child in a non sanctioned ceremony.
Neither of my children were married in the city they live in or the cities their parents live. Marrying in a church wasn’t important. Neither married someone who was involved in their faith.
I don’t particularly want to open this up to the how and why’s. Because these are my personal beliefs and thoughts on these matters.
It is DD1/SIL - their decision on being ‘devout’. The Church does not scrutinize the wedding party when a marriage is in or out of the faith (so an attendant for a non-Catholic wedding, and an attendant standing up in the Catholic Church wedding).
You are correct in knowing the other things. For those that aren’t, if you want a sacramental marriage in the Catholic Church, and you are devout (go to Sunday Mass, receive Holy Communion), you go into marriage with a life partner with full knowledge and consent and have a sacramental marriage in a Catholic Church or chapel. If the spouse isn’t Catholic, for them to understand. That is part of the pre-marital meetings with the priest/deacon. The spouse does not have to join the Catholic Church, but many do come to church with their spouse (and later children) - and many do convert. For some it could be many years, while some come into the faith before or after the wedding.
The dignity and respect. Some Catholic churches have a church wedding coordinator to make sure all goes well but also maintain the dignity and respect in the church (music and activity during the ceremony).
Lots of people are NONES (no faith affiliation). If DD2 was planning a wedding now, she would not (by choice) have a sacramental marriage because she is not practicing her Catholic faith nor has plans to start.
‘Rules arbitrary and limiting’ - they are not generally arbitrary, but the priest/deacon in the Catholic Church do need to follow for sacrament to take place in the church.
I have not experience this. I’m Catholic, I’ve been in 3 weddings, and it has not been a requirement that those in the wedding party be Catholic/that I not be in a non-catholic wedding. It was the case in 1954 when my parents were married (father wasn’t catholic), but that was 70 years ago.
The issue seems to be that DD1/SIL are the ones who do not want to “stand up” (be a part of the wedding party?) for a non Catholic ceremony.
Not a Catholic, but I have friends that are devout, including one who went on a mission at a leper colony, who were part of wedding parties in non-Catholic ceremonies. Maybe there is an obscure rule or they feel being part of the wedding party is somehow worship outside of their faith. Sounds pretty cultish to me.
Yes DD1 and her daughter would not be part of the wedding party ‘standing up’. DD2 is aware of this - it is because DD2 was raised Catholic. DD1 has stood up for one of her bridesmaid’s wedding (she was non-Catholic but Christian), and another was Catholic and had a Catholic wedding.
No obscure rule, and for some, how DD1 feels may ‘sound cultish’ - but our goal is for our spouse to get to heaven (and for us to get to heaven), and for us to live our lives as Christ would want us to - and follow the Church he founded. We also believe in purgatory. There is a lot of depth to the Catholic faith.
DD2/BF are not talking marriage, but DD2 has been thinking about it for a long time. DH says “DD2 has faith, just not following organized religion”.
It is very hard when family members have different faiths or different levels of the same faith. I hope that your D2 can accept your D1’s decision without bruised feelings. I hope you don’t mind my comment because it’s none of my business. But if the goal is to someday get D2 back into the faith, D1’s choice to not stand up with her sister might actually push her away further. I wonder whether D1 having a conversation with a priest that runs a strong Catholics Returning Home program would be helpful?
Weddings are so important, and unfortunately highlight any differences.
DD1/DD2 have an excellent relationship. I think when DD2 does get married (and we believe it can and possibly will be with this BF) it will be a simplified wedding - beautiful, but cost-effective. This couple have gone to a number of friends’ weddings (one DD2 ended up being in the wedding and purchasing the dress that was her size - the original gal couldn’t make the wedding; she was paired up with her BF who was in the wedding party initially).
I asked DH if he has had conversations with DD2 about BF and ‘future together’ - he said yes he has, but he said to me today “those conversations are private”.
It is unfortunate when a lot of planning and expense go into a wedding, and the couple do not stay together.
S and DIL just wanted to have wedding and reception at same venue so folks could just stay in one place. They also aren’t particularly religious so have no real reason to want a church wedding. No judgment and I wasn’t suggesting anyone else was making a judgment.
Wait, I have to ask this question - you’re telling me D1 “stood up” for one of her friends who wasn’t Catholic, but she’s not willing to stand up for her sister? I have read that Catholics may not want to or should consider not standing up for people in non-Catholic weddings, but I have a hard time understanding why she could do it for a friend and not her sister. I know, not my life, not my decision but I just don’t get that.
When I worked as a psychotherapist, and before, in my real-life experience as a cultural Jew living among those who were not, I often stated that there are as many ways to be Jewish as there are to be Christian (or Muslim or Buddhist for that matter).
I won’t speak for everyone but from my perspective as someone raised and practiced Catholicism but now doesn’t attend mass regularly.
Also as someone who has had limited experiences with Jewish people.
I think that being Jewish is who you are. Being a Jew who doesn’t regularly go to synagogue or belongs to a synagogue, you are still Jewish. Because that’s what you were born as. Went to Sunday school or not. Bar mitzvah or not.
In a way that I don’t feel Catholic unless I would go to mass every week. My relatives go to mass on vacation, wherever they are, they find a Catholic Church and go to mass. Every week.
If anyone asks, I don’t say I’m Catholic, I will occasionally say that I grew up catholic. Mass is very familiar. I believe in God and the tenants of the faith but other Catholics would not think I am part of their faith.
So I feel you can be a cultural Jewish person. I’m not sure you can be a cultural Catholic person.
PS. I’m not talking for anyone else and am not trying to be offensive to any other religions. I’ll also try and get this thread back on topic by not making any more posts of this ilk
I have a friend who describes herself as “JEW-ish.” I would say she’s a Jewish person by culture, but not so much religion. She was born to Jewish parents, and has been married twice, but neither husband was Jewish.
It has to be part of the practicing Catholic aspect that you may not understand. For example, I have gone with my friend to her Lutheran service, and I have gone up for a blessing. But I do not participate with their ‘sharing of the bread and wine’.
DD1’s friend had a Christian service and is Christian, not Catholic. Nothing wrong with DD1 standing up for her friend in support of that marriage.
DD2 identifies herself as Catholic, she just is not a practicing Catholic. When the time comes for her to choose to marry, she may not be a practicing Catholic at that time. She is on her own faith journey. DD2 might get married and have some kind of a service, but it won’t be a sacramental marriage. At some future time, if they choose to have a sacramental marriage (when she or they are following the faith) they can do so.
One thing most non jews do not understand is that a synagogue is not a holy place. There is thus no reason, religiously, to be married in a synagogue. Even very very religious Jews seldom marry in a synagogue . I’ve read that less than 5 percent of Jews do. And when they do it’s usually just because the synagogue has a nice room available for the party. Also, btw, Rabbis are not considered to have any special relationship or connection to G-d. They are just more learned in the Torah and other biblical tracts.
In 1980s I had a lot of angst from dh’s aunt because we married in my childhood protestant church (not catholic, never considered since he was a non-attender). And we received a stern letter from her when we baptized our first baby in a protestant church. Gosh, I don’t miss that stress and am glad things are more low key these days. (I am happy to say that none of this angst kept the great aunt from doting over my kids and becoming the devoted surrogate grandmother when my MIL died at age 60.)
I once went to a Jewish wedding at their temple (conservative) with the reception at a local country club.
It was years ago. When I tell a Jewish person that I actually went to the temple for a wedding, they are always so confused. I forgot until you mentioned it.
It’s highly unusual for Conservative houses of Jewish worship to be referred to as a “ Temple.” Generally only reform Jews refer to their places of worship this way Conservative and Orthodox Jewish places are generally called “Congregation” or “Synagogue.” The only time I have seen it is with Conservatives congregations that are very liberal. Like “Temple Emanu-El” in Florida. In any event although I have been to weddings of Jews of every denomination I have never been to one in a synagogue. My kids recently heard of one and they were surprised. .